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========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 22 Tue Sep 18, 1990 SFRT-ASST [Ken] at 02:30 EDT Sub: CodeKeys, the Macro Tool This topic is for support and discussion of CodeKeys from CodeHead Software. CodeKeys lets you automate any procedure with your ST, by recording and editing all your key and mouse button presses. 200 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 1 Sat Oct 17, 1992 LYRE at 17:14 EDT John & Matt, I tried to have CodeKeys load a new macro file, but it didn't work correctly. I believe that it takes you only as far as the file selector without accepting a file name and/or loading that file automatically. I did keep the same macro in the same slot number in the new macro file. However, I must admit that I'm probably not the most efficient user of CodeKeys. Lyre ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 2 Sun Oct 18, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:11 EDT Lyre, I just did some experimenting. I was able to successfully load a KEY file from a macro, but it appears that either recording or playback are aborted when a KEY file is loaded, even if it doesn't load into the macro that is being recorded or played back (#32 in this case). This means that the macro cannot continue on to exit the accessory. LOADKEYS.PRG could be used, but that requires that you are in a situation where you can run a program. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 3 Sun Oct 18, 1992 GSCOTT-MOORE [Gerry] at 12:48 EDT \\\--- I tried making CodeKeys load another KEY file. No dice. \\\--- Gerry ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 4 Mon Oct 19, 1992 CBARRON at 02:46 EDT Could loadkeys.prg be 'converted' to an acc. sometime in the 'near' future. It seems that all it need do is load a key file into the auto programs memory. Does not sound too illegal to me. That would solve the 'no run program' dilema if any, in the future. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 5 Mon Oct 19, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:25 EDT Yes, John, all that's needed is a macro that loads a new set of macros. One thing that must be kept in mind is that in every set of 32 macros, at least *one* has to be able to reload the master set. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 6 Mon Oct 19, 1992 LYRE at 18:58 EDT John, Just a slight clarification (I'm dense) are you saying that you actually were able to load the Key file into CodeKeys? My version simply stopped at the file selector - it didn't load anything. However, you might have done this differently (in comparason to my attempt). Did you use text to enter the file name or did you have a mouse event? Lyre ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 7 Tue Oct 20, 1992 S.SAMUELS [ICE CREAM] at 02:32 EDT Lyre, I've been following along your discussion about using a macro to load a different KEY file. Just for fun I tried to do what you're asking for...I made it work, and think I know what problem you are getting stuck at. Let's see if I can explain it: First, I did this with a timed macro and then edited the various pauses to get the speed where needed and keep longer pauses where needed. Longer ones are required while waiting for a file to load or for a window to draw. Do the steps to load a key file. Now, I use Popit, so I can call Codekeys with a hot key (Alt-K in my case). Click on load and when the file selector appears (Little Green in my case) Hit ESC and type in the name of the *.KEY file you wish to load. OK...here's the important part....DON'T HIT RETURN, DON'T CLICK OK! Instead, hit the Space bar slowly THREE times. Then stop the recording in the normal manner. Click CANCEL in the file selector to get rid of it. Now, edit the macro like this: Look at the end of the macro for the key strokes ". [p] K [p] E [p] Y [p]"....( I'm using [p] to indicate a pause)...now delete everything after the Y [p] except for the last two Spc [p] Spc [p] Spc. Now change the Spc to Return or Enter for the first two Spc's and delete the last Spc. * Note; when you run this macro, the first RET will cause the file selector to load the key file being typed in and the second will exit the codekeys window leaving you with the new key file installed and active. You may need to created something in this now active KEY file to get you back to your first KEY file. ** More notes; I've found that a pause of 0150 is pretty safe for everything but the pauses between key strokes for the file name. For those I use pause = 0010...just to be safe. It probably could be tuned to be faster. Hope this helps you. John and Charles, I wonder if there could be a way to copy and paste a macro from one key file to another? Like Shift-delete, load the new key file and then Shift-insert. See what I'm trying to say? BTW, I can't remember life before CodeKeys. Was there any??? %^) Best, Stephen ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 8 Tue Oct 20, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 14:23 EDT You can cut and paste keyfiles. It's in the manual or readme. Or in the hardcopy hand-out. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 9 Tue Oct 20, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 20:49 EDT A reminder about using a macro to call an ACC through PopIt, you must "lock" the macro since PopIt does a little mouse movement to pop up the ACC. Lyre, Hopefully, Stephen's explanation answered your question. He expained it quite well. Stephen, Thank you for your detailed explanation. As for your question about pasting, CodeKeys already does that...or am I misunderstanding your request? To copy and paste a macro, do a Shift-Delete to put it in the paste buffer, load the new KEY file, find a blank spot, and do a Shift-Insert. CodeKeys will ask you for a trigger key and then paste the macro into that slot. Another way to move macros from one file to another is to load them in blocks. This way requires some juggling, but it allows you to move a number of them in one operation. Say you want to move macros 11-15 to another macro file. You can first move them into slots 1-5, then save a temporary macro file of 5 macros. Load in the destination macro file and free up the first 5 slots by moving them around. Then load the temporary macro file and move the macros wherever you like. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 10 Tue Oct 20, 1992 S.SAMUELS [ICE CREAM] at 22:39 EDT Hi John, Gee, am I missing something or do I have an old version (1.3) or what, because I can't do the paste between key files thing at all!? Just a second...I'm gonna check the floppy of CK. Hmmmm, that's the same version as on the HD. I think it was the original version that shipped along with Popit...or rather was released at the same time. I don't find anything in the manual about pasting between key files, just between individual macros. Your last statement about moving blocks of macros at a time is exactly what I would like to do. Let me see, are you saying that by moving them to slots 1-5 and saving only 5 macros under a NEW NAME is the way to move them? Anyway, I'll just wait to hear from you before I muddle it up further. Thanks much, Stephen ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 11 Wed Oct 21, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:55 EDT Stephen, Well, I could swear that yesterday when I tried the copy and paste between files, it worked. But today's a different day, and I can't repeat it. Go figure. Anyway, the other method does indeed work. Whenever you save a macro file, you can think of it as saving a block. That block is from 1-32 macros in size, starting with macro number one. So if you want to move 10 macros to another file, first move them into slots 1-10. Then save 10 macros to a temporary file name. Load in the destination KEY file (which would probably be a file containing 32 macros, but needn't be). Now just load the temporary file, noting that it is going to load over the first 10 macros. Finally, you can move the macros around as you desire. CodeKeys has always worked like this. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 13 Wed Oct 21, 1992 S.SAMUELS [ICE CREAM] at 22:37 EDT Thanks for making me feel sane again John, <grin> It would be swell to be able to copy and paste between key files directly though wouldn't it? Perhaps in the near future? %^) My best to you and yer other Head, Stephen ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 14 Sat Oct 24, 1992 M.CHANDLER [Matt] at 16:06 EDT To John, (a hair off topic, but see the p.s.) I've been using Quick ST (latest version) for a while, and after you told me that adding accessories actually -increases- the speed of the computer using Warp 9, did you mean as opposed to Quick ST, or does it actually keep the computer at a normal speed? I typically lose about 7% of my speed when all 6 accessory slots are being used (measuring with the old Quick Index). It really doesn't matter, as I will be ordering Warp 9 anyway. Anyway, I'd still like to upgrade to Warp 9. I understand it's $30.00 to upgrade. Can I fax you a copy of my Quick ST manual (says version 2.21 on it, and it's old!). If that's okay, can I order via e-mail using a credit card? If so, please post your fax number here, and the exact amount it would be (regular shipping). I've done the "credit-card shuffle" lots of times, and would know what info to give you in e-mail to order Warp 9. Or, just e-mail me what you need, and your fax number, amount, etc. Thanks, Matt Chandler p.s. I left e-mail to Charles (C.F.Johnson)(?) about 9 days ago, but have heard nothing from him. He must be busy or something. p.s. I've been watching the writings about how to install more macros via .key files. That wouldn't work for me, as I need access to about 60-100 macros at all times. I realize that doing a project like this would probably (probably, he says?) not pay (time=money) but, I respectfully ask you, was there a programming reason to set the limit of macros to 32? TOS has a limit of 6 accessories, so maybe you had to limit the size too. I'm a "why" type of person, and am just curious as to why it was set to 32 macros. If it's none of my business, let me know. Just curious, that's all (my mind keeps on envisioning an "open Codekeys accessory" command, and seeing 3/4's of the screen filled with 100 little macro boxes). I know that you have no plans to do so, and understand/respect that decision. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 15 Sat Oct 24, 1992 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 19:13 EDT Matt, One thing about Warp 9 that is neat is that it doesn't matter how many acc's you have installed nor where you put it in the auto folder. In older software accelerators, if it was an auto folder version you had to have it at the end of the auto folder, to give you the maximum speed. Otherwise, other tsr's would see the screen output calls first and slow down your system, sometimes slightly, sometimes a lot. And of course, all the acc's would be first in line too. But the W9 accessory has special code that gets around this and let's W9 see the screen output calls first. Optimally, you should have it as the last resident acc. loaded into Multidesk Deluxe, to be sure it loads after all other acc's. What makes this neat is that you can put W9 at the front of your auto folder and watch your auto folder prg's messages blit by mucho faster, then the acc's load and then the W9 acc. loads and works its miracle to give you get the best screen acceleration possible, despite all the tsr's and acc's that have loaded before it. Formerly, putting a screen accelerator at the front of your auto folder would result in a drastic screen acceleration slowdown (from what it could have been) by the time your system had booted. Hope this helps. - Mel ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 16 Sun Oct 25, 1992 M.CHANDLER [Matt] at 01:28 EST Hi Mel, Thanks for the info. It only helps me justify this purchase more so. I guess that's why they call them "Codeheads". :*) It didn't take them long either to get Quick ST straightened out, debugged, and easy to use. Should have gotten this long ago. Matt ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 17 Sun Oct 25, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:48 EST Matt, The Warp 9 accessory causes Warp 9 to regrab its vectors. This means that it's first in line to handle the calls which it accellerates. This will eliminate most of the slowdown imposed by an array of other accessories (assuming that Warp 9's accessory runs last). However, the calls that Warp 9 does _not_ handle will still pass through all other accessories that impose a slowdown. The bottom line is that Warp 9 is the best thing you can do for your system to speed it up software-wise. Your choice of accessories should be determined by balancing their advantages against their disadvantages. To update, send us your Quick ST disk and $30 plus $3 shipping and handline. Charles is on tour with Hiroshima and has probably not answered his mail lately. The limit of 32 macros was determined by our decision that this was the best balance between memory usage and dialog box space (to run in all resolutions). I can understand that there will be those who would like more macros, but the requests for this have not be numerous. Most people find that they can accomplish their tasks by prudent and creative use of the existing powers in CodeKeys. When I hear that someone needs to us 60-100 macros, it makes me wonder if they are trying to compensate for underpowered applications. Perhaps there are other applications available which would not require such a vast amount of external massaging. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 18 Thu Nov 26, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 01:35 EST Codeheads, Here is a suggestion for CodeKeys. I even looked in the manual for it and could not find it there. How about a command or code that gives you the ability to repeat a character a certain number of times. Say I want CodeKeys to print the 'X' character ten times, maybe I could enter 10-X or something like that. It could also be usefull for certain events that need to be repeated. Or maybe a looping command would be easier. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thursday, November 26, 1992 - 12:41:18 am ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 19 Thu Nov 26, 1992 LYRE at 16:25 EST ST'er, What do you mean it's not in their? Their is the ability to do loops in CodeKeys. You access it through one of the buttons next to the exit button - forget which and don't currently have CodeKeys loaded. Lyre ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 20 Thu Nov 26, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 19:53 EST Lyre, I see Repeating, Delayed, Timed, and no Looping. At least in not the way I mean or need. I don't need to link macros together, I need to repeat characters and instead of typing in 20 'X' for example. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thursday, November 26, 1992 - 7:40:02 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 21 Thu Nov 26, 1992 LYRE at 22:27 EST ST'er, Hmmmm, I thought you were looking for a Repeat macro (which in certain circumstances *is* a loop). However, having just tried it, I find that it will not handle what you're looking for. You could of course enter a macro that already had 10 X's (or whatever) and simply use that. However, I assume that for whatever reason this is not acceptable. You can create repeating macros which will continue to perform the macro event until told otherwise. Unfortunately, I haven't needed this for some time now and don't remember how to do it. I know that it has something to do with the Repeat and the Time and/or Repeats settings. An that their was a kind of "catch" to it. I hate it when I forget things! Lyre ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 22 Thu Nov 26, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 23:34 EST He wants something like the <esc> key in WordPerfect. Hmmmmm.... ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 23 Fri Nov 27, 1992 LYRE at 18:37 EST All, I have raised a question concerning the combination of CodeKeys and Warp 9 in regards to the Block and Jump settings and macros with mouse menu events. Simply, the macro will not work when these functions are enabled. I am however using an older version of Warp 9. Please, to keep this discussion organized, respond in TOP 31: Warp 9, the Accelerator. Thanks for any and all help (and for complying with posting in the other topic). Lyre PS: A slightly expanded version of this message is also posted in the Warp 9 topic. This "double posting" is to make other customers aware of this discussion. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 24 Fri Nov 27, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 20:22 EST Jeff, Thanks for the suggestion. That's a good idea. I'm sure Charles will put it on his list. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 25 Sat Nov 28, 1992 D.FLORY [ALERTsys*Cop] at 01:18 EDT >CodeKeys lets you automate any procedure with your ST, by recording and >editing all your key and mouse button presses. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 26 Sat Nov 28, 1992 D.FLORY [ALERTsys*Cop] at 01:56 EDT Hmmm, now where did that come from? Aladdin gremlins?? Dave Flory, ALERTsys*Cop 22:38 PST - 11/27/92 ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 27 Sat Nov 28, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 23:18 EST John @ CodeHeads, Another thing I would like to see in CodeKeys is to be able to have some sort of trace on the screen while testing the macros. Just a simple single line that displays what it is currently doing. And to maybe have line numbers there to make it easier. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Saturday, November 28, 1992 - 11:01:40 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 28 Sun Nov 29, 1992 CBARRON at 02:58 EST Does codekeys do anything to interfere in anyway with the serial port, specifically TTmodem1? I am wondering if that is my rts/cts problem, mentioned elsewhere. TOS 3.06 if it makes a difference. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 29 Sun Nov 29, 1992 LYRE at 09:48 EST One thing that I've *always* wanted was the ability to create a macro in a text editor. While CodeKeys is very easy to use for most things, have you ever tried utilizing it for RTC questions, etc? Ever try and go back and re- read that macro? LS-I t g e t s a l i t t l e a w k w a r d ! Lyre PS: Sorry, couldn't resist! ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 30 Sun Nov 29, 1992 GSCOTT-MOORE [Gerry] at 12:23 EST \\\--- How about having CodeKeys do macros that can pause and wait for input followed by a return key. Then they continue with the processing? I know this can be done with multiple macros, but it can be tricky and difficult. \\\--- Gerry ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 31 Wed Jan 13, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 18:16 EST I was experimenting with CodeKeys this morning and installed two copies in the AUTO folder (with different names). I discovered a rather interesting thing -- you can have more than 32 macros this way! Here's what I did. I loaded a set of 32 macros using the accessory. I then started recording macros and found that the macros were being recorded into an empty CodeKeys. I was able to play back macros with trigger keys from either set. I did notice one problem and there are probably others (because CodeKeys wasn't designed with this in mind). If you record a macro from the accessory, you can't terminate it because the other CodeKeys is reading the hot keys. Another thought occurs that I haven't tested. With two copies in the AUTO folder, I believe both would load the same default files (CODEKEYS.KEY, CODEKEYS.LNK). But when the accessory loads, it only finds one of the copies, which makes it possible to load a different set of macros (and a different link file, making it possible to automatically load two KEY files?). LoadKeys uses the same technique as the ACC to find the AUTO program so you'll only be able to manually load KEY files into one copy. Have fun. I can't guarantee complete functionality, but use these tips for whatever they're worth. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 32 Wed Jan 13, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 23:25 EST John, I know you probably don't want to suggest this, but I would think it'd be easy enough to 'hack' a second (or third or fourth or...) copy of CodeKeys to look for different default files. I've done this with other programs with great success. ((( Terry ))) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 33 Wed Jan 13, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:51 EDT John, I can't remember all the key codes ALREADY, and now you want me to load ANOTHER 32! Grin. Interesting. Did you do that on purpose, or was is one of those accidental discoveries? ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 34 Thu Jan 14, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:13 EST Interesting, John ... I'll file that away for a future tinkering session. gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 35 Thu Jan 14, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 11:12 EST John, I think its great that you'd share the results of your goofing around with us, without being paranoid about the users screwing something up and blaming Codeheads. Thanks. |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 36 Thu Jan 14, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:29 EST Terry, That's something I didn't think of, but I did consider trying to change the "magic" value used for communication in CodeKeys. If the same thing were done to CODEKEYS.PRG, CODEKEYS.ACC, and LOADKEYS, it would allow one to edit the macros in either set of macros. Ron, Actually, I did it on purpose. I had suggested CodeKeys as a solution (for the PopIt/Alt-Keypad problem) for Stephen Samuels in another topic. I was anticipating a response that he was already using all 32 macros and I came up with this idea. Once again, I like to come up with solutions that can be done with existing versions of our software, rather than requiring an update. It makes it easier for everyone. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 37 Thu Jan 14, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:52 EST I just did some further hacking into this dual usage idea. The magic word used for communication in CodeKeys is "keys". I changed this with a disk editor in CODEKEY2.PRG and CODEKEY2.ACC to "key2". If you want to try this, make sure you only change the occurence which is not found within a text area. After changing the magic word, I was able to use two ACCs to communicate with the two distinct copies of the PRGs. There is still a problem with recording while in the second ACC, though, so be careful. Only one of the PRGs will see the hotkeys for recording. I suppose this could be solved through some other tricks with redefining the trigger keys and CNF loading. <grin> This is definitely advanced hacking kind of stuff, so do it at your own risk. John P.S. If you want to change the menu name of the second CodeKeys ACC, look for the word "CodeKeys" which is followed by "inactive". I changed mine to "CodeKey2". ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 38 Thu Jan 14, 1993 WAYNED. [Wayne] at 19:50 EST A new slogan for you guys...... CodeHead Technologies: Solving problems you never knew you had! :-) Wayne <Who can't fill nor remember 32 macros nevermind 64 or ??> ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 39 Thu Jan 14, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:44 EST Thanks, John. Then *3* CodeKeys would work, and even more? Sheesh, I am going to need CodeRef to keep track of my CodeKeys. (I know, it doesn't exist ... yet.) Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 40 Fri Jan 15, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:45 EST Wayne > Solving problems you never knew you had! Actually, that's not too far from the very first CodeHead slogan. I will leave it to John (who is at the NAMM show tonight) whether or not to share that with you. (You know John, the one that starts with "as if...") :-) ===Tomas=== January 14, 1993 @ 20:56:38 pm PST ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 41 Fri Jan 15, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:30 EST Sure, I'll share it. We considered (back when G+Plus was our own product) using the slogan "CodeHead Software -- as if nothing were wrong". We decided not to use it because it might not have been clear to everyone what we were implying -- "CodeHead Software [lets you carry on] as if nothing were wrong". It's a bit esoteric. <grin> John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 42 Fri Jan 15, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 04:46 EST >J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:30 EST > >(back when G+Plus was our own product) So who's product is it now? :^) >"CodeHead Software [lets you carry on] as if nothing were wrong." >It's a bit esoteric. <grin> I kind of like it... ((( Terry ))) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 43 Fri Jan 15, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 10:53 EST Oops...I meant "back when G+Plus was our only product". John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 44 Fri Jan 15, 1993 WAYNED. [Wayne] at 18:58 EST >"CodeHead Software -- as if nothing were wrong" I like that one too! :-) Both are true. CodeHead Software has been "Solving problems you never knew you had" enabling you to carry on "as if nothing were wrong" for years now. I shudder to think of what my computer existence would be like without all my CodeHead products installed. Wayne ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 45 Mon Jan 18, 1993 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 00:20 EST "as if nothing were wrong" Yeah, I can see a lot of potential for misinterpretation there. Live And Direct [2:07 PM-17/Jan/93], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 46 Wed Feb 10, 1993 JOHN-KING [John] at 02:04 EST I just bought Codekeys about a week ago (version 1.3 - the latest one, I assume). Based on my own use for the last week, the following thought occurred to me: If you are on a tight budget and cannot (for the time being) afford to purchase Hotwire, Lookit/Popit, _and_ Codekeys at the same time, you should get Codekeys first and get the others later. The reason: I am using Codekeys to call Desk Accessories (which, I believe is what Popit does), and also to launch programs, which is what Hotwire does (not to mention Neodesk - I prefer pretty icons _with_ hotkeys, myself, and plan on getting Neodesk when I get a hard disk). :-) Of course I believe (from the messages posted) that the above programs would do a much better job at their functions than Codekeys, but if you cannot afford all of these at one time you should get Codekeys _first_, in my opinion. It can substitute for these programs, and do other things also. This is exactly what I, myself have done. I am running a Mega 4 ST (TOS 1.2) with only my internal floppy. I have grown accustomed to loading certain programs into my 1.2 Meg RAM disk and running them from there.(This way I can run a second program and then re-run the first program without waiting for the stupid floppy to read all over again.) Well, now I have created Codekeys macros to call the Universal Item Selector, copy the programs or folders into my RAM disk, and run the program. All with one keypress. Voila, a program launcher ala Codekeys! I have other macros that simply call the UIS desk accessory, along with my other desk accessories. (A temporary substitute for Popit!) I took a few weeks to read all the old messages (now archived) about Codekeys and really appreciated learning what applications others have for this program. I want to share my own uses, especially for those who don't yet have Codekeys and therefore don't really understand that this is a _must- have_ program. I have quite a few macros for UIS to show disk space, display the EXTRA extenders (by clicking the right mouse button on the default extender); I have Control-F to generate a click on the Format button, Control-O on the Folder Button, and so on. Right now I am writing this text in Interlink and am using a macro to give me 5 spaces. I assigned it to the Tab key (of all places!) I am using Interlink v. 1.83, which is _not_ the latest version, and lacks keyboard hotkeys to many menu items. Some of my Interlink macros are: HELP Set block start | Numeric Keypad: UNDO Set block end | / Set Mark 1 Ctl-L Load Buffer | * Go to Mark 1 Alt-? Find String | - Up one line (click on GEM arrow) Ctl-E Execute program | + Down one line (click on GEM arrow) RS-Del Delete Block | Ent Down one page (generate Shift-Down) Ctl-Q Click on Quit | . Up one page (generate Shift-Up) ...and so on. You get the idea. Obviously, most of these macros simply generate mouse clicks on menu items. For Findex (a program I dislike, but don't know of any other free-form databases) I have always hated typing "EXIT" then "Y" to quit the program. Now my Control-Q macro types EXIT, pauses, then types Y for me. No more frustrations because I accidently typed EYIT or DXIT... Plus, since Findex allows only a few text macros, limited to a few characters apiece, I used to get frustrated with these limitations. No more, now that I have Codekeys! I am now writing text string macros that are more than 1 line. Another macro for Findex types "e" the edit command, then Return, Return, Return, Tab, Tab, which is something that was a real pain in the neck for me to do manually everytime I wanted to enter some information into a certain database. Of course I have my Control-S macro to type "SAVE" Return. And I have Control- Return to give me Return, Tab, Tab. I also have Shift-Return to give me the same thing with a 3rd Tab. For ST Writer Elite I use my Alt-M macro to give me a mouse (i.e. put me into GEM mode), while my Alt-Shift-M macro takes me back to the un-mouse (i.e. hotkey) mode. I have macros for all the menu items I normally use: load, save, print, edit. I _used_ to keep switching back and forth between modes just for ease of use: GEM mode to load a file (so I could use the item selector), and hotkey mode for just about everything else. Now I can stay in GEM mode and have hotkeys at the same time by having Codekeys click on the menu choices. And, am I the only one that can't stand the fact that ST Writer uses the .TXT extender for ST Writer files, and .DOC for text files? I would always use .ST for ST Writer files and .TXT for text files, but it was a real pain in the neck loading these files since the item selector would display all the .TXT files when I wanted to see all the .ST files! With Codekeys, now my Control-L macro clicks on LOAD and then when the Universal Item Selector comes up, clicks on one of my 4 personal default masks (the one that says ST, of course). I don't have to get a sector editor and try to alter the ST Writer program: Codekeys does what I would do manually with the mask in the Item Selector. And the method I just described is better (for this purpose) than simply selecting a UIS function key: the above method gives me an *.ST mask FOR ANY DIRECTORY OR FOLDER I HAPPEN TO BE IN! (By the way, for those of you who don't yet have Codekeys but do already have the Little Green Selector, you should be able to do exactly the same thing that I do with UIS. Just a personal preference, and no need for you to buy another item selector.) I have just started to use Codekeys for LDW Power, my favorite program. At the moment I am using a Control-S Codekeys macro to automatically create an Alt-S LDW "Save" macro in new spreadsheets. (Instead of re-writing this dumb macro for every new spreadsheet I create ... and I create a lot of them.) (And instead of importing another spreadsheet with an LDW macro "library", as some people might do.) I also now have a Codekeys Control-W macro to write an LDW Power Alt-W macro to switch windows in a spreadsheet. Again, I used to just re-write this macro in each new spreadsheet-what a pain! I have a nice LDW Date macro that results in "@Date(93," waiting for keyboard input for the month and day. (Notice how it prompts with the current year!) This was a nuisance re-writing in each spreadsheet that needed it. Now I will have Codekeys write this LDW Power macro when needed with a Ctrl-D macro. Another Codekeys macro for LDW Power: when you are in the Help menu there is no way to go to the previous Help page by using the keyboard. You have to use the mouse to click on the "Previous" box. A real annoyance to me: I created a Codekeys macro to generate the appropriate mouse click. And I really have just begun to use Codekeys with LDW Power. Another idea I had was for a macro that was already mentioned in a message from someone else: a macro to tell me it's getting late, so I should shut the computer off. I figure you could write 2 macros: Macro A would repeat, say every 5 minutes, but would lie dormant. Macro B would be a scheduled macro which would play at, for example 10:30 pm. At that time Macro B would spring into action, calling Macro A. Macro A would turn the screen saver on, and pause for, say 10 seconds. Of course, since you would be in the middle of something you would start typing and the screen saver would go away.....but every 5 minutes it would happen again! I haven't tried this yet since I've got so many other macros to create first, but I think it would work. And that's what I've done in a little over a week! (I admit I read all the old messages before I bought it, and I thought about many of the things I wanted to do before I bought it.) I hope the above examples give people without Codekeys an idea of why they need it (although I will probably find more complex things to do with it later that would be even better examples), and I hope they inspire those with Codekeys to write macros they haven't thought of as yet, just the way I was inspired from previous messages. John King (100% natural John King from New Jersey... ...no "Tarpinian" added!) :-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 47 Wed Feb 10, 1993 JOHN-KING [John] at 02:22 EST Let me see if I can get around the GEnie formatting this time: Some of my Interlink macros are: HELP Set block start | Numeric Keypad: UNDO Set block end | / Set Mark 1 Ctl-L Load Buffer | * Go to Mark 1 Alt-? Find String | - Up one line (click on GEM arrow) Ctl-E Execute program | + Down one line (click on GEM arrow) RS-Del Delete Block | Ent Down one page (generate Shift-Down) Ctl-Q Click on Quit | . Up one page (generate Shift-Up) ...and so on. You get the idea. Obviously, most of these macros simply generate mouse clicks on menu items. John King (100% natural John King from New Jersey... ...no "Tarpinian" added!) :-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 48 Wed Feb 10, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:13 EST Natural John King (can be just call you "The Natural?"), Your CodeKeys ideas are great. Look in the file libraries for a little bit of CodeKeying that I sent up for STWriter macros. Also, as a satisfied beta tester of the new MultiWriter, I can recommend it greatly, since it allows you to specify the file extension (and has many other abilities, such as being able to run under MultiTOS). Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 49 Wed Feb 10, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 14:41 EST John King, Thank you for sharing your experiences with CodeKeys. I know that this will help give others ideas, too. For your information, the CodeHead RAM Disk allows you to load entire RAM disk setups (contained in a single file) automatically. If you do a lot of loading of files into your RAM disk, you might want to consider our RAM disk. This image loading is only one of its many capabilities. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 50 Wed Feb 10, 1993 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 18:11 EST Hi! Thank you .... thank you John-King. You caused me to dust off my Codekeys and .... man your examples started me off. KenO. :) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 51 Wed Feb 10, 1993 AEO.3 [Lyre] at 20:13 EST John, This has probably already been stated, but CodeKeys is also wonderful for signatures, dividers, etc. That is how I "sign-off" on all my messages. I know for a fact that I haven't made the most use of CodeKeys, but whenever their is something repetitive and consistent (in keystrokes, mouse movement/clicks, etc) I look to see what CodeKeys can do for me. Of course, the only problem I find with the CodeHead Technologies products is that you _always_ have to go back and read the manual. Their is so much inherent power in their products that you can not absorbe it all - despite your 2nd or 3rd reading! I have personally found that I have obtained some shareware/commercial products that replicate features I already have in other products. So, to anyone who ones a CodeHead Technologies product, read, Read, READ! "It's in their!" Lyre 7:58 pm, February 10, 1993 PS: Example of the "read the manual again" necessity. Until one of the CodeHeads about a month ago mentioned that their was some means of changing the date and time format I didn't know the feature existed! I had a *huge* date/time stamp since I was using the default settings. (REPLACE the time or date in case you're wondering!) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 52 Wed Feb 10, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 22:01 EST Neat stuff John! I just finished addressing over 500 envelopes out of PageStream using Cardfile and Codekeys. I set up my envelope in PageStream (and set the HP printer for envelope feeds). Then I made a Codekey that would grab Carfile, go to the next card, send the address information to PageStream, print the envelope, and then delete the text in the text column. I set the trigger key for ENTER (on the numeric pad) which is right next to the stack of blank envelopes. I could just hit ENTER and feed an envelope. I LOVE IT! Thanks CODEHEADS!! You make my life _so_ easy! Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 53 Thu Feb 11, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 02:52 EST Lyre, Reading the manual is really only part of the answer. You also have to read the addendum... and the inserts... and the README!! file. There's always one important thing that gets left out of the manual and has to be wedged in somewhere. So you have to dig a little. <g> ===Tomas=== February 10, 1993 @ 10:32:18 pm PST ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 54 Thu Feb 11, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 04:30 EST John, Right you are! Acquiring CodeKeys is like stepping from Flatland into the 3rd dimension. (So is acquiring a hard drive, actually!) gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 55 Thu Feb 11, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:35 EST Where is the information about "globals" located? ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 56 Thu Feb 11, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 21:02 EST Kenne, There is really no documentation for the term "global". I was using the term generically to describe my use of the way CodeKeys loads and saves KEY files. CodeKeys allows you to save KEY files with from 1 to 32 macros in them (always saving contiguously from number 1). You can use this feature to set up whatever type of "global" system you want. I keep most of my program-specific KEY files in sets of 20. My main set(s) of macros (CODEKEYx.KEY) contain(s) HotWire (desktop) specific macros in the first 20. But macros 21-32 are macros which I might like to use at any time (like <grin>, :^), CodeHead Technologies, Extend-O-Save, etc.). As long as no program loads a set of macros with more than 20 macros, my "global" macros will be available at all times. If there's a particular program for which I need more macros, or I don't want my "globals" in effect, I can have a set of 32 macros (even if they're just blank to kill the other macros). Some of my KEY files only contain one macro, which I might load and move to another slot. If you think about and understand how CodeKeys load KEY files, you'll realize what incredible power there is in the system. For instance, I believe that you can have a macro running in slot 32 which loads a set of 31 macros (?). Remember your KEY files can be as large or small as you like. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 57 Thu Feb 11, 1993 R.PLAGGENBUR [Ralph] at 21:14 EST I don't know if this is something that Codekeys could do..but it is something that I want to do,, so here goes.. I want to do a search and replace type deal were I could run a GEnie capture through it and it would find all the lines that start with Category or Message and replace it with a deleated line! My reasons for this are,,I probably capture and print out 200-240 pages of stuff every 10-12 days. I print on the backs but I want to cut it further buy dumping the CAT/MESS stuff.. Can we do this OR can you point me in a direction??? Ralph ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 58 Fri Feb 12, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 00:20 EST Craig Harvey has a program that will do that. SRCHRP9B.PRG. It's r-e-a-l-l-y cool. It'll search for ASCII, numeric, or control wildcards. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 59 Fri Feb 12, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 19:23 EST Emacs has that kind of power, and more. We use our own version, CodeHead ED, for all of our source code editing. It would be a simple matter to create a macro which would search for a particular string, and delete the entire line. The in a couple of keystrokes, you could go to the top of the document, execute the command 1000 times and within a few seconds, your lines would be deleted. CodeHead ED is included on our CodeHead Utilities disk. Emacs is available in most online libraries. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 60 Sat Feb 13, 1993 JOHN-KING at 20:39 EST Ralph- Using the editor _you now have_ you should be able to create a macro to get rid of the GEnie Headers. For instance, using Interlink I think I could create a Codekeys macro to do the following: Click on the "FIND" menu, then type what I want found: [space]------------ Then allow a sufficient pause for the program to find the thing, Then go {Left} {Down} to get you to the line _after_ the ------------ Then click on the "SET BLOCK START" menu Then go {Down} {Down} {Down} {Left} Then click on the "SET BLOCK END" menu Then click on the "DELETE BLOCK" menu. Then the macro should call itself. I may be off on the details, but you get the idea. (Sorry for the LDW Power / Lotus 1-2-3 notation of {Left} and {Down}.) Of course you'd want the macro to end by calling itself so it could do this 9 times (if my memory of the instruction manual is correct). And if 9 times is not enough, have another macro call it, call it again, call it again, call it again, and so on, ...and then call itself, too! I'll bet you don't have to spend any money to get another program. (Even though I'm sure buying Codehead ED would be worth it for all the other things it also does.) :-) If you try this, let us know if it worked. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gnox- I know I need a hard disk - I just cannot afford it financially at the moment. I can't even use Aladdin because I don't have a hard disk! Sheesh! It's such a pain running off of floppies. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Al- Yeah, I really do have to check out the libraries for the key files uploaded. I also have to run DEGAS and check out the key files that came with Codekeys!!! Probably _after_ I've created and fine-tuned all the macros that immediately come to mind. (Could be a while!) :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John- Since I'm booting off of Floppies, would I really benefit from using the Codehead RAM disk the way you mentioned? (I don't think so, but I may be missing something.) I won't even get Neodesk until I get a hard disk because it'll add more time to the boot process. (Same for Hotwire, albeit a smaller program.) It already takes too long for me to boot my ST - I go get a drink of water or something every time I turn on my machine. NOTE for new users: This is because I run so many programs at bootup, from my AUTO folder. Otherwise the boot process would be very quick, even from a floppy. Please tell me if I'm wrong, John: would your RAM disk save me time? (I have to wait a few weeks until I can afford to get Warp 9, so I would have to really _need_ it to get it now and put Warp 9 off until later. ANOTHER NOTE FOR NEW USERS: The Codeheads' software is very reasonably priced - My current financial situation is not meant to be a reflection on their pricing, which is very "cost effective". I'm saying this being a "cost- effective"-skate, myself. Also, John, I'm still reviewing all the old messages. Could you tell me _how_ you use a macro to load another set of macros before I get to that part, since you mentioned it again? Are you clicking using a macro to click on the Codekeys Acc or are you doing something else? Can I do whatever it is without Hotwire? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lyre- How did you think I myself signed-off?? :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Swampy- Great use for Codekeys! Thanks for posting this. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All- By the way, the reason I am signing off the way I am is this: A long time ago I attended an online conference on GEnie. A well-known developer (not the Codeheads, by the way) sent me a private message to go to the other "room" (or whatever you call it) and then asked me about the Glendale Show. He thought I was John "King" Tarpinian. I am signing off the way I do so nobody else confuses John Tarpinian and myself: He was born John Tarpinian and is from California, while I (and a whole bunch of other GEnie users who share the same real name) was born John King. John Tarpinian is well-known, and apparently a great guy, but alas, his real name isn't King. My name _is_ King; it's not going to change, and I want to avoid any further confusion when I am "in public" as it were, as opposed to simply reading messages for my own benefit. -John... John King (100% natural John King from New Jersey... ...no "Tarpinian" added!) :-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 61 Sat Feb 13, 1993 JOHN-KING at 20:42 EST I'd like to offer some thoughts about the sales of Codekeys (and any other macro programs). (I don't know if there are any others for the ST currently, but I seem to remember reading about ST Control a long time ago.) I believe that macro programs are inherently less popular than other programs. This is not because fewer people need them, but rather because fewer people _know_ they need them. In fact, while everyone knows what a word- processor is (or at least has heard of the term "word-processor") how many computer novices know what a macro program is? How many even know what a _macro_ itself is (in, say WordPerfect or Lotus or LDW Power)? Hardly any, from what I've seen. My friend just bought a computer, and he doesn't even know what a sub-directory is; he's having trouble learning how to use Microsoft Works, etc. (I told him he should buy a Falcon, but the "expert" at the IBM clone store steered him into a 386 DOS machine. He bought it to use productivity programs at home, but guess what - he has had so much trouble learning it he plays games on it most of the time!!! And he even has Windows! What a dumb move to go for the IBM clone, because the salesman told him the Atari is a game machine, and now all he does is play games!) <Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, ...> A macro program is _perceived_ by the computer novice to be an advanced, complicated application, _perceived_ as being as "hard" as programming, something the beginner doesn't think he needs, something he _perceives_ will be too hard to learn how to use, ...if he even knows what a macro program is. Even the intermediate or advanced user may _know_ he needs a macro program, but forget (yes, literally forget) that it exists after a while. This is exactly what happened to me: I bought my Mega 4 ST in Jan '89, then a few months later (as the only in-house computer-knowledgeable employee at my company) had to get some things done on an XT clone at work. I had to set the dumb box up for the folks at our warehouse down the block. The bundled macro program came in very handy and I wished I had something like that for my ST at home. Later on I read the advertisements for Codekeys and ST Control, but wasn't sure which one to get. (If there were reviews I'm sure I read them -- it was so long ago I really don't remember!) As time went by there weren't any more reviews about macro programs, and the advertising stopped. I LITERALLY _FORGOT_ ABOUT THE FACT THAT I WOULD REALLY _LIKE_ TO USE A MACRO PROGRAM ON MY ST. And if I had bought my computer recently, I wouldn't even know that anybody made a macro program for the ST line!!! (I was quite inactive on GEnie for a year or two.) Many users don't have a modem at all, or don't use their modem, and so depend on the print magazines.) I cannot remember the last time I saw anything in a print magazine referring to macro programs. The points I'm trying to make are these: (1) I THINK THE PRINT MAGAZINES REALLY DROP THE BALL BY ONLY (as a rule) REVIEWING THE NEWER PROGRAMS AND UPDATES. (When was the last time you saw a review of Codekeys? How about LDW Power? How about a review that compares LDW Power with VIP Professional and K-Spread? How about Codekeys vs. ST Control? I won't hold my breath!) How are the new users supposed to know what's out there? By reading Atari's huge catalog? Come on, the catalog (I assume) does not really compare one brand of spreadsheet (or word processor, or ...) to another. There simply isn't enough room for a full-fledged review of each product, or a thorough description of what a spreasheet (macro program, etc.) does. (No, I haven't seen the Atari catalog, and even if what I said isn't true, I'll bet a lot of people haven't seen it either. Or aren't willing to spend $12 for a catalog.) (I must commend Current Notes for running an article on GDOS in the Feb. '93 issue: I _used_ to know how GDOS was set up, but it's been so long since I changed my configuration I FORGOT! And new users don't know in the first place, so thank you, Current Notes. This is a prime example of what is needed: discussing "old information" for: [a] Review for the old user, and [B] Teaching the new user who doesn't know anything but is eager to learn.) (2) It's pretty hard for someone who has never used a macro program to picture what he's missing. He simply _doesn't know_ the value of a macro program. HERE IS ANOTHER PLACE WHERE THE MAGAZINES DROP THE BALL: THEY SHOULD PRINT ARTICLES DESCRIBING WHAT MACRO PROGRAMS (of any brand) DO EXACTLY, AND WHY JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY SHOULD BUY ONE. Perhaps these informative articles could be combined with a quick review of the macro programs currently available. (3) By the same token, WHEN A DEVELOPER ADVERTISES, HE NEEDS TO GO _OUT OF HIS WAY_ TO CONVEY TO THE NOVICE EXACTLY HOW HE WILL BENEFIT FROM USING THE MACRO PROGRAM. (I will add that although I now have had Codekeys for about 2 weeks and am _very_ happy I bought it, the old ads for this excellent program were not good enough to convince me to run out and _immediately_ buy it years ago. The ads may have been good for very experienced advanced users/programmers, but not for the novice that I was back then.) Simply stating in terse terms what their brand of macro program does, won't work - it just doesn't click for the novice readers. I hope that the publishers of the print magazines see this message and will start writing articles about "old" information and review "old" programs that are still available. And I hope that macro-program developers (especially the Codeheads) will ask users for advice on how they could come up with a better advertisement for such an abstract type of program as a macro program. Perhaps those of you reading this post could post your own ideas as to how they can convey, in an ad, what a macro program really does, in only a few words that could fit into an ad. Perhaps the Codeheads can get some ideas by reading the uses that people have already posted here and simply list these different uses for their ads. (Assuming they decide to start advertising Codekeys again.) John King (100% natural John King from New Jersey... ...no "Tarpinian" added!) :-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 62 Sat Feb 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:04 EST John King, the natural: Great point on the problem of reviewers' assumptions. I'd love to see fresh reviews (or maybe write them) on current applications, without all the gush and glow over the updates and improvements. BTW, what auto folder programs are you running at bootup? Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 63 Sat Feb 13, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 23:53 EST I'm not stupid when it comes to software, macros, and programming, but the entire microemacs command and macro system is simply too much work to use. How's CodeHead ED different than the PD emacs you can download? Do I need to buy CodeHead Utilities to try it? |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 64 Sun Feb 14, 1993 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 00:48 EST John King, Just for the sake of correctness, John Tarpinian's middle name is King. It is not a nickname. :) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 65 Sun Feb 14, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:21 EST John King, Yes, that's an excellent point you made about good programs being forgotten because they're not new. I hope that good folks at AEO include part of your post in the next issue! If you have no hard drive and lots of RAM (4 meg or more), the Codehead Utilities are _made_ for you! Not only the ramdisk (which is the best) but several other items in there as well. You can order it by GEmail if you include a Visa/Mastercard number and you'll probably have it within a week! gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 66 Sun Feb 14, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 10:14 EST Robert, I quite agree about MicroEmacs. It is a control system only an old WordStar fanatic could love... But once you get used to sitting a tack, it isn't bad.. Grin. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 67 Sun Feb 14, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 16:48 EST CodeHead ED is very similar in use to MicroEmacs. I don't particularly like WordStart or other ancient CP/M based editors, but I find Emacs easy to use for the basic features, with a lot of hidden power if you're willing to expend a little effort (we've got some amazing macros). The main difference between CodeHead ED and Emacs is that CodeHead ED runs as an accessory and it uses the GEM file selector for loading and saving files. The ACC aspect allows us to develop software without having to reload our source code after each assembly. We also include a program that takes a command line and passes it to the accessory for automatic loading of files. John King, Creating a macro that loads a KEY file is a little tricky, but it can be done if you're really determined. First, you need to make sure that the KEY file contains less than 32 macros and that the macro you record is a higher number than the number of macros in the KEY file. I tested this recording macro number 32 to load a set of 20 macros. I found that the loading of the macro file not only stopped the recording process (which is OK), but it also caused some internal conflict in CodeKeys such that the start/stop hot keys no longer worked. I was able to save the macro and reboot, however, and the macro will load the other macro set and the hot keys still work as long as you don't try to record another macro that loads a KEY file. Note that CodeKeys trigger combos will not work while the CodeKeys ACC is on the screen. I started to recording from my desktop (HotWire). Also, if you use PopIt to call up the CodeKeys ACC, you need to lock the macro to get it to work. Regarding the CodeHead RAM Disk, it is a godsend for floppy disk users with enough memory. Here's how it works. You would set up a RAM disk and copy your desired file onto it. You then run CodeCopy (also on the CodeHead Utilities disk) to save the entire contents of the RAM disk to a single file. Then you run CodeRam and configure it to automatically load that RAM disk image (or you can manually choose a file each time you run CodeRam). CodeRam will load the RAM disk image, but because all of the files are contained in a single file, the loading is faster than loading a number of individual files. But the real beauty of the CodeHead RAM Disk is that once you've loaded it once, you can reset your computer (warm boot) and the RAM disk remains installed with all of your files. Better yet, if your RAM disk contains an AUTO folder and/or ACCs, you can actually bootup off of the RAM disk!! This gives you a reboot that is even faster than a hard disk, and your AUTO programs and ACCs will be installed right from the RAM disk. You can create as many setups as you like by saving RAM disk images of your favorite combinations. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 68 Sun Feb 14, 1993 AEO.3 [Lyre] at 20:02 EST John, A suggestion for another feature for CodeKeys. I realize that CodeKeys has been so stable that their hasn't been a need for an update for awhile, but it couldn't hurt to mention this. Anyway, why not "semi-hard code" a "load another *.KEY file" feature. The semi- hard coding would take the form you used with starting / stoping of macro recording. Allow the user to stipulate their own key combination to invoke the loading of another KEY file. Assuming that this would have to be done as a macro, why not state that in order to take advantage of this feature the user must not use the 32nd macro slot. In effect, that slot is "reserved" if the user wants to be able to load another key file. Of course, their is still the problem of the internal conflict, but it might be a viable - and easy - means of allowing more macros to be loaded as needed. Lyre 7:36 pm, February 14, 1993 ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 69 Sun Feb 14, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 22:16 EST Lyre, That's a good suggestion. We'll log it for future expansion. But don't forget that CodeKeys already comes with the LoadKeys program, too. This program allows you to load key files (and link files) by passing the filename on the command line. This means you can double-click on KEY files, or install them in the HotWire menu, or put them in Flash DO files, to load different KEY files. I haven't tried all of this methods from macros, but I assume that you'd be able to use these techniques for loading KEY files from macros, too. We usually think way ahead when writing our software. It just may take us a couple of years to suggest some of the more obscure capabilities of our programs. <grin> John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 70 Mon Feb 15, 1993 AEO.3 [Lyre] at 02:17 EST John, Actually, I was thinking more about having something that I could change "on the fly" while in a program. I am racking up a huge collection of dividers (equivalent to dingbats/ornaments in fonts) for my various AEO articles. At this rate, I might as well simply store all of them as macros and be able to jump from ARTICLE.KEY to my DIVIDER.KEY and back to my ARTICLE.KEY again as needed. Although I could load them manually, it would be quicker the way I mentioned. (I am assuming that you guys can avoid displaying the CodeKeys dialog - or at least getting it off the screen in a hurry.) > It just may take us a couple of years to suggest some of the more > obscure capabilities of our programs. WHAT?!? Their might be more in their that I haven't run across? At this rate I'm going to have to invite you guys over to give me classes so I can learn everything about your programs once and for all. Lyre 12:54 am, February 15, 1993 ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 71 Mon Feb 15, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 09:28 EST Lyre, Did you happen to catch the discussion of my experiments a few weeks ago with two copies of CodeKeys in memory at the same time? I found that it is indeed possible to have two sets of macros accessible at the same time (up to 64 macros). This seems like it would be a much better solution for you than loading different sets in and out on the fly. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 72 Mon Feb 15, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 14:12 EST The only thing I want for Codekeys is a way to call up cheat sheet listing all codekey macros and hotkey defaults that are linked to the currently _active_ program.(MTOS is on my mind). I can't keep track. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 73 Mon Feb 15, 1993 WAYNED. [Wayne] at 19:28 EST John, I use LoadKeys all the time. I've got several different HotWire menu's, and several of them load their own .KEY files automatically using the power of HotWire, CodeKeys, and LoadKeys! :) -------- >The only thing I want for Codekeys is a way to call up cheat sheet listing all >codekey macros and hotkey defaults that are linked to the currently _active_ >program.(MTOS is on my mind). I'll second that request! :) Wayne ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 74 Mon Feb 15, 1993 JOHN-KING at 20:54 EST Al, Right now I boot with: CACHEV3 .PRG -Cold Hard Cache - saves time and wear & tear on my floppies! (I run with a LARGE cache, so that not only are directories cached, but some files are, too!) CODEKEYS.PRG UIS_III .PRG G+PLUS .PRG ->I use G+Plus only on my WordUp boot disk. FORMDOIT.PRG And I expect to purchase Warp 9 in the near future. And before you ask... CALL_UIS.ACC IDLE .ACC ->Screensaver: I won't need this when I get Warp 9, of course! MULTDESK.ACC ->I should probably upgrade to Multidesk Deluxe. (I've got Multidesk v. 1.82. I assume $10 plus the original disk, mailed to "CodeHeadquarters" would be the procedure, John?) SI_RAM .ACC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norm, I had read somewhere a long time ago that John Tarpinian was nicknamed "the King" by fellow Atari users because of his stature. Do you know _for sure_ that his middle name is King. (And if so, then WHY does he use his middle name all the time? I cannot imagine there being a multitude of John Tarpinians around, but check the GEnie listings and you will see around 10 or 20 addresses for people with first name: John and last name: King. Which does not include John Tarpinian, obviously.) Nothing personal against him, I want to remind all. It's just that I don't want people to confuse us. :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John, Thanks for the info on loading macros from macros. (I'm going to print out what you said and re-read it a couple of times!) :-) As for the Codehead RAM disk, I'm not as yet convinced: I run LDW Power, ST Writer, my patch editor - Musicode VDS - seems like it was written with the IBM in mind :-( , Degas, Silhouette, Arcshell, and most programs from my RAM disk. The only exceptions are Interlink ST (because I can run another program without exiting Interlink) and WordUp (because I boot _without_ Cold Hard Cache, and with the print spooler turned off, but with G+Plus). So, as I see it, I would have to have several Boot Disks: One with LDW Power in the RAM disk, another with ST Writer in the RAM disk, another... ... because it wouldn't all fit on one floppy. Right? Kind of a bummer. (Not to say that I plan on doing without your RAM disk forever - I plan on gradually buying _most_ of your software, but I'm interested in my short-term needs right now.) Please tell me if my above assumptions are correct. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John & Charles, I am using Codekeys (v. 1.3) along with the Universal Item Selector III (v. 3.32 by Chris Latham/A&D) and FormDoIt! (v. 1.2d by Dan Wilga/Gribnif) and have found the following: Even if I boot with FormDoIt first, then UIS III next, then Codekeys afterwards, there is a "conflict" between Codekeys and the other two programs. What I mean to say is that if I have a Codekeys macro which is triggered by Ctrl-C, then when I am in UIS if I want to copy a file by using the UIS equivalent Ctrl-C, the Codekeys macro kicks in instead. I can, of course use a different trigger so as not to conflict with UIS's Ctrl-C, Ctrl-M, Ctrl-P, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-R, etc., but... it becomes a bigger problem with FormDoIt. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ For those of you who don't already have FormDoIt, it gives hotkeys to all your dialog boxes. In the Codekeys Macro Editor (i.e. the Codekeys ACC) for instance, FormDoIt allows you to choose (i.e. highlight) a macro event FROM THE KEYBOARD. (I know there are those of you who want the Codeheads to add this capability in a future Codekeys version, and so I'm telling you that with FormDoIt it's already there! It's not "perfect" for choosing macro events, but it gives hotkeys to about 90% of the macro events. Not to mention that when you press Options it gives hotkeys to all the choices; when you Replace a date event it gives you hotkeys for the date choices so you don't have to use the mouse. In UIS when you click on the title and the next screen is displayed it gives you hotkeys for all your choices. Any program that has dialog boxes (i.e. MOST PROGRAMS) will benefit from FormDoIt.) The way it works is that it underlines a character in a word. You simply press Alt-character to, in effect, "click-on" (select) that choice. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, I believe Windows on the IBM has something like this, maybe, for their drop-down menus.) (FormDoIt is for dialog boxes, not drop-down menus.) Anyhow it's a must-have program, available right here on GEnie. It's "Colaware", i.e. send Dan Wilga some Jolt Cola if you use it. (I sent him $5.00 instead, a couple of years ago.) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Back to the problem: since there are 26 letters of the alphabet and 10 numbers, that's >>36 triggers<< that I _cannot_ use in Codekeys (Alt-A, Alt-B, Alt-C, Alt-D...), not to mention those UIS Ctrl- triggers. It's too much of a pain to reach for [Left Shift]-[Right Shift]-[Delete] to turn FormDoIt on and off all the time, as it is to turn Codekeys on and off all the time. I'd really like to use all three programs without a conflict: I would like to have UIS and FormDoIt override the Codekeys triggers, but only whenever one of their triggers was pressed. Let's say I have a Codekeys macro with the trigger Ctrl-P to Print an ST Writer file, for example. At the moment I want to show a text file so I call UIS. While in UIS I press Ctrl- P, and UIS would get the trigger, not Codekeys. Same thing for FormDoIt. If UIS or FormDoIt does not have that particular trigger, then Codekeys would get it. Perhaps you Codeheads could help Chris Latham and Dan Wilga modify their programs so that they would get the keypresses first, before Codekeys. Or maybe Codekeys would also need to be modified, too? Since I don't know much about the technical aspects of doing this, it seems really easy to me. <chuckle, chuckle> Can it be done? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Suggestion: When you give your opening statement at the online conference Wednesday 2/17/93, perhaps you might want to mention that your product Codekeys is a macro program, then mention a few SPECIFIC EXAMPLES of what a macro program can do. Maybe something to the effect of: It allows you to (a) Add hotkeys to drop-down menus, (b) [another specific example from one of the messages posted here], (c)..., (d)..., [and so on], and {whatever the header at the beginning of this topic says about automating keypresses or whatnot}. Since the online magazines (and maybe print magazines) will probably reprint this conference, you should bear in mind that many novices will be reading the transcript. A perfect opportunity! Hope the idea helps you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Although a few days ago I recorded and fine-tuned ST Writer Macros I just started using them today. INCREDIBLE! Although I've written quite a few macros in the 2 weeks I've had Codekeys, I'm not done yet. I'm really glad the Codeheads took the time and effort to develop this program. \ :- ) <--That's supposed to be a huge grin, which is what / you get when using Codekeys macros. Sorry about all the wordiness. I figure I'll be all worded-out after another handful of messages. -John John King (100% natural John King from New Jersey... ...no "Tarpinian" added!) :-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 75 Mon Feb 15, 1993 AEO.3 [Lyre] at 21:15 EST John, Do you *really* want me to start playing around with your software? ;) But, to answer your question, yes I did read the messages about your expirements. However, I have this deal with my hard drive. I don't do anything too annoying/confusing to it and in return the hard drive has promised not to give me any mechanicle trouble. Of course, the hard drive demanded a "user error" clause not being it's responcibility. Rather then let it get away with this, I leave well enough alone. You couldn't tell that I'm one of those hardware deficient people now could you? Kenne, Do you mean a dialog display of what would appear on a print out of the currently loaded KEY file? If that is the case, I wouldn't mind one either. Sometimes I forget which key is which and the printouts are not always handy. Lyre 5:53 pm, February 15, 1993 ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 76 Tue Feb 16, 1993 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 02:44 EST John King, Back when I was running floppies, I found the fastest way to boot was to use Interleave 11 Single Sided 80x9 formatted disks created by Maxifile III, use Coderam and Codecopy (Codehead Utilities) to create a drive C ramdisk with my auto folder and desk acc's on it and then boot from it. Yes, Coderam not only allows you to create a ramdisk, but it can boot an auto folder found there and initialize any desk acc's far faster than a floppy. On my boot floppy I had an auto folder with Coderam and a Coderam.ccp file (created by CodeCopy) in the root directory. When I booted, Coderam created the ramdisk, loaded the .ccp file into it and then started booting the auto folder and desk acc's there. The very fast read format of the Interleave 11 disk really helped on the initial running of Coderam from disk and reading the .ccp file into ram. So, rather than booting a dozen auto folder programs and 3 or 4 desk acc's from floppy, one by one, a lone .ccp file is loaded into ram and then the system goes into overdrive with everything now booting super fast from ram. It sounds like more work, but it was appreciably faster than just booting from floppies. Pinhead will also improve program loading speed. Floppies or hard drive, you can't go wrong picking up Codehead Utilities Release 4, Warp 9, Maxifile III...err...actually the whole Codehead line. :-) Seriously! Hope this helps. - Mel ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 77 Tue Feb 16, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 02:57 EST What I mean is a hotkey that calls an accessory that lists the Codekey hotkeys and any hotkeys from the program that's running. So... Let say I'm in Flashhi...Hmmmm. I can't print the list to disk. Never mind. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 78 Tue Feb 16, 1993 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 03:52 EST How about writing yer own 'cheat sheets' for the macros and loading them into STeno or EdHak ACC's? Then you could use Popit and/or have a Codekey's key to call them???? %^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 79 Tue Feb 16, 1993 STARFALL [Alan] at 12:19 EST To avoid program conflicts, I try to use key combos that are unlikely to show up in an application. My HotWire hotkeys are all <CTRL>-<ALT>-<key>, and my CodeKeys keystrokes are all <LSHIFT>-<CTRL>-<key>. Keeping consistent shift key combos also helps me keep my HotWire and CodeKeys keystrokes seperate. / / * / Alan * * ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 80 Tue Feb 16, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 14:10 EST If I could print the short/long list to disk I probably would think about it. But lately my feeling is that there are some Atari workarounds that aren't worth the effort. The EDhak deal is more work than printing the lists out and keeping them in a big notebook near the computer. (I have that notebook--it's yellow). There are some mindless tasks that computers do better than humans. Keeping and updating the list is probably one of them. Through the link files the computer "knows" which .KEY file is loaded. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 81 Tue Feb 16, 1993 AEO.3 [Lyre] at 20:05 EST That is why I mentioned a "simple" dialog that could be referred to whenever you are looking for something. Basically it would be a blank dialog with some text on it. All that would be needed would be the Hotkey combo and the name - the macro # isn't all that important although I am sue that someone will want it. :) Lyre 7:53 pm, February 16, 1993 ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 82 Wed Feb 17, 1993 N.WEINRESS [Norm] at 00:37 EST John King, Yes, it is truly his middle name. Why he uses it? Maybe he likes us calling him, "Your majesty"! :)) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 83 Wed Feb 17, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 00:50 EST He does. Trust me. <grin> ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 84 Wed Feb 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:43 EST John "The Natural" King, Many of us have tried FormDoit, and from the lack of traffic here about FormDoit lately I am assuming that most users have given up on it because of conflicts with other programs. In particular, Warp 9, in its latest versions, offers the same Fkey dialog operations as FormDoit, although only for the three standard dialog buttons. And Warp is about as non-intrusive on all other running programs as you can find. (Except for the fact that it makes your computer *much* more responsive!) You definitely should upgrade to MD Deluxe. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 85 Wed Feb 17, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:33 EST I may be coming into the conversation a little late, but I seem to see a question about how to keep a file of the hotkey combo for a specific CodeKey file. You might try this: 1) Write your list out in EdHak or similar DA. 2) Record a macro to call EdHak and load the specific file into EdHak. Be sure to select the Drive path and name in the macro. 3) Repeat #2 for each CodeKey file you have. Now you should be able to get a list of current keys for whatever application you many be in. If you use the same trigger for every CodeKey file it will make it easy. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 86 Wed Feb 17, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 10:56 EST John King, As I recall, John Tarpinian uses his middle name out of respect for and in memory of his father. I know that he's quite proud of it. It has nothing to do with his stature, physically or socially. I'm glad that you're so enthusiastic about CodeKeys. Unfortunately, it is not one of our more important products. While you may be very enthused about CodeKeys, it's just not the type of program that everyone can relate to -- even if we were to promote specifically all of the great things it can do for people, as you've suggested. We've been through this discussion in this topic before and determined that there are some people that can relate to CodeKeys and there are some who cannot. For this reason, we will not be placing a heavy emphasis upon CodeKeys at our upcoming conference. We'll be happy to answer questions about CodeKeys, but we predict that the majority of the attendees will be more interested in Calligrapher 3 and Warp 9, along with the new Extend-O-Save modules (Mandala -- and two NEW ones which will be announced and released at the conference). John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 87 Thu Feb 18, 1993 D.RENNER2 [HONDA] at 01:58 EST Kenne@SFRT, The EDhak idea is'nt a bad one - do you have an accessory text editor? Any such editor should be available to you from the "Desk" menu, and text files certainly can be saved to disk, loading the one you need with the program should be fairly painless. BTW (is Ed Harvey around?) there is a file recently uploaded on GEnie called ON_LINE which is a random-access-text-write- your-own-help-file accessory which you can customize to do anything you want. Check it out. Again, because it is a desk accessory, it should be available from within any GEM program. Dennis ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 88 Thu Feb 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:42 EST John, You are probably right about the specialty nature of CodeKeys, but I want you to know that the other day, in testing, I inadvertently booted up without CodeKeys, and then spent 10 minutes trying to find out why my TT was broken. It is one of the finest utilities I have seen for any platform. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 89 Thu Feb 18, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:53 EST I have EdHak. Like I said, at that point it's MUCH easier to just make 3-ring binder because the notebook would be easier to change if you change your .KEY files. Doing it the Edhak way is just another example of the Atari Computer Hobbyist's pride in finding work-arounds that take more time conceiving than the actual chore would take if done manually. I loved doing that at one time but I suppose I'm losing my sense of humor about it these days. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 90 Thu Feb 18, 1993 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 18:03 EST Al, > Many of us have tried FormDoit, and from the lack of traffic here > about FormDoit lately I am assuming that most users have given up on it > because of conflicts with other programs. I'm still using FormDoIt and have not run into any of the conflicts with other programs that you refer to other than the need to disable it when using Michtron Utilities with any TOS greater than 1.04. Granted, Warp 9 does have the function key feature that you speak of and it is handy, but FormDoIt gives a lot more utility and is definitely the better way to go in my opinion. ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 91 Thu Feb 18, 1993 S.GARRIGUS [Scotty] at 19:55 EST Joe M, Great idea! Thanks! It will come in very handy even for other files such help reference files for specific programs, etc. Scotty CMC ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 92 Sat Feb 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:00 EST Mike, I had a *lot* of conflicts with FormDoit. Maybe you have a later version? Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 93 Sat Feb 20, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 00:56 EST I only have 1 conflict as far as I remember. It's Outline Art. Depending on how much memory I need the program is initted (new word?) or not. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 94 Sat Feb 20, 1993 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 03:10 EST Al, I'm using FormDoIt v1.2e. ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 95 Sun Feb 21, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 09:44 EST To all CodeKeys fans, Since I don't have PopIt, I use CodeKeys to get at my ACC menu without using the mouse. I just discovered a refinement in that macro that I thought I'd pass along. I use Alt-\ to trigger that macro, which is simply L X=0040 Y=0008 UP X=0040 Y=0072 On my system, that instantly brings up the Desk menu with the second accessory in the list (EdHak) highlighted. Your `default' accessory depends on the Y value in the UP line. To open that ACC, all you have to do is hold Alt again and hit the Insert key, which is very close to \. And if you use Warp 9's mouse accelerator, you can refine it still further. In your default mouse accelerator table, enter 16 into the `vertical' row at the `8' column. (The other settings in the table can stay as they are.) Then, after using the Alt-\ macro to highlight your default ACC, you can hold Alt again and scroll up or down the ACC list with the arrow keys, then (still holding Alt) hit Insert to open the ACC you want. By this method you can select and open an ACC as fast as you can do it with the mouse! I think this is sorta neat. And, gentle reader, if you were already wise to this trick - why didn't you tell me?? :) gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 96 Sun Feb 21, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:50 EST Mike, Yep, that's a newer one. I'll try it out. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 97 Mon Feb 22, 1993 R.PLAGGENBUR [Ralph] at 22:56 EST John King How can I ever thank you...I used your ideas in message 60 and came up with a Macro that with using Flash, it searches for Category backs over it and then deleates that line and the next. It's kinda slow but it took a group of messages that were 6500 lines long and chopped off 873 lines. Thats about 14 pages of Categorys. Ralph ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 98 Thu Mar 04, 1993 JOHN-KING at 23:11 EST Mel, Thanks for the details on Coderam, etc. in message 76 (2/16/93). I was looking for details such as these, and now after reading your post, I plan on getting Codehead Utilities sooner rather than later. (But I've _got_ to have Warp 9 first so I can stop drooling: I keep reading about all the nifty new screensavers, not to mention the fact that you can change the system font, have background pictures, and, uh, doesn't Warp 9 do something else like speed up screen redrawing? I almost forgot about it -- I've been drooling over the other stuff so much!) But what's the advantage of Maxifile over UIS? I think I tried the Maxifile demo a month or two ago, and I noticed the different interface than UIS, but since UIS is more like the built-in Atari file selector, I prefer the UIS interface. But, come on now, Maxifile is a Codehead product: there _must_ be some features that were not apparent to me during my quick test- drive. What are they? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Al, Try using the KX-P1124 printer accessory with FormDoIt! Try clicking on UIS's title "Universal Item Selector III" and then look at the resulting screen with FormDoIt. And, like I said, try using FormDoIt with the Codekeys editor (ACC) and you'll see what I mean: it provides hotkeys for >> a _multitude_ of choices on the screen at the same time <<, not just 3 choices that Warp 9 does. FormDoIt conflicts with nothing to my knowledge, because it only works when dialog boxes are present on the screen. (Except for Codekeys, because Codekeys works _all_ the time, including when dialog boxes are on the screen!) For those situations when you have _many_ buttons on the screen at once like the above examples there is no other choice to my knowledge than FormDoIt. It's kind of like the Codehead products: if you haven't tried it you don't know what you're missing. (I'm sure this is true with all the Codehead products I haven't tried, myself. Like upgrading from MD to MD Deluxe! <-- Thanks for the advice!) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gnox, Great idea about calling up ACCs! (I had to read it a couple of times, just as you'll have to do with my macro mentioned below, but _fantastic_ idea.) Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ralph, My pleasure. New users: read msg 60, then msg 97 for a great example of how Codekeys can save much time and frustration. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All, One of my Codekeys macros I'd like to share: (According to the old messages I read) some of the users had asked the Codeheads to include a feature so they could save a file numerically. The Codeheads responded by making the format of the date extremely flexible. As a result, if you want to display the date January 15, 1993, you can do it as 930115 and use it in a macro to name a file. I created a macro to do this to save my capture buffers from GEnie. The "basic idea" is to have the macro type today's date in the above format, followed by _1.GEN so that the file name looks like 930115_1.GEN (i.e. it's my first GEnie capture buffer on 1/15/93.) Now, what if it's my second capture buffer of the day? Well, the macro continues by using the left arrow to go left 3 times. All I have to do is Backspace and replace the 1 with a 2. The only problem is when I look at the directory I have to scroll through a lot of files to see what number I should be at. (I.e. today I captured the new Codekeys messages, logged off, saved the buffer as 930304_1.GEN, logged- on, etc. ... and then had 3 (or was it 4?) buffers already there for today. I would have to scroll through about 20 files in my directory before seeing what was already there from today. And it isn't fun looking at all those numbers, using my brain to compare the numbers to today's date. (I prefer to let the computer do the thinking so my brain can take it easy whenever possible!) But scrolling through the directory isn't necessary when you have Codekeys, of course! :-) This is what I added _at the beginning_ of my macro, before the "basic idea", to make it even better: I have the macro click on the "Directory:" Line then hit Escape to clear the path, then type in the path where I save my buffers. (i.e. A:\ ) and then type today's date followed by *.GEN, so the path looks like A:\930304*.GEN and then have the mouse click on the scroll bar to update the directory. (Thereby showing only those files beginning with today's date and ending with GEN.) Let me repeat that in different words: I have the macro show me a directory with _only_ today's capture buffers (if any) displayed! And then the macro continues with the above "basic idea". It's really great! If you want to save your capture buffers numerically, then try the above macro; you'll love it. (You will have to play with the timing of the pauses until you fine-tune it just right.) -John (You know who I am so why put a long multi-line blurb after my name and waste line after line of your capture buffer?) <chuckle> ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 99 Fri Mar 05, 1993 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 01:31 EST John-King, It would take some time to really discover all the features in Maxifile III. Suffice to say that it has tons of good stuff. If you have the demo, you can begin to discover all the amazing things it can do. Two things that come to my mind right away are the ability to quickly perform multiple operations on files and the multiple file selection capabilities. You can select a bunch of files and then perform a Fastload Off, Run in TT ram, Use TT ram, etc. all in one swoop. Maxifile automatically manipulates the files in one swoop for all the operations you selected, just like that. A real timesaver. You can also team Maxifile III with Arcshell and quickly select file(s) in various paths and then Arcshell remembers which files they were and where, and proceeds to archive them. Another real timesaver. You can also gain access to Maxifile III through Charles' Little Green Selector file selector for unparalleled power while using the file selector. Maxifile III is good stuff. - Mel ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 100 Fri Mar 05, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 01:46 EST Maxifile III is great. It's probably my most used program. Hotwire is actually the most used program but it's system transparent. You only notice it when it's missing. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 101 Fri Mar 05, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:07 EST John King, Thanks for another macro tip - I hadn't thought of using the Date feature in CodeKeys for automatic file naming. Glad you liked my ACC idea too. I should point out that it's most useful for those who want to use only one macro for bringing up DAs (especially those who change their DA setup frequently). If number of macros is no object, it's better to set up one macro for each DA slot so you can run it with one keystroke and don't have to use the extra step of the keyboard mouseclick (Alt- Ins). re Maxifile: it's a file maintenance tool that will act as a file selector, whereas UIS is a file selector that will do some file maintenance. When I bought Hotwire, I made the mistake of not buying Maxifile bundled with it (it's cheaper that way), and I'm still making do with the TT desktop or UIS for my file maintenance tasks. However I don't plan to deprive myself of Maxifile much longer; too often I want to tinker with program flags on the fly, and Maxifile is the only way of doing that, as far as I know. Besides, now that Maxifile and Data Diet cooperate as well as UIS / Data Diet (thanks to the release of DD2), I have no reason left to put off buying Maxifile ... in fact I think I'll order it right now! (How's that for autosuggestion? :) gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 102 Fri Mar 05, 1993 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 20:11 EST Here's a bit I picked up while watching MAC TV (why I watch that... must be bored!) Anyway, they had a demo of a product called QuickKeys - a macro program for the MacIntosh. It was _exactly_ a CodeKeys clone (except you could save key 'icons' to a file, and click on these to launch your maco - why you would want to do that is beyond me). The reason I bring this about is because the one thing that was more than CodeKeys was the price - $149.00! Consider ourselves lucky, and thank you CodeHeads! Sincerly, John E. Gniewkowski Editor, GEnieLamp ST ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 103 Fri Mar 05, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 20:50 EST JOHN KING - I was a _long_ time user of UIS, but recently switched over to Little Green because of a conflict that UIS had with a couple programs. Now that I've got it (and Maxifile) I'll never go back. Key stroke selection of a file is wonderful. I hate grabbing the mouse to select a file. %^) Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 104 Sat Mar 06, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 04:17 EST John King, Yes, I know how FormDoit works. It's neat. I'll look at the latest version and see if I still have conflicts. Mel, I agree about Maxi. I have found the link between Maxi and LGS to be a wonderful time saver. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 105 Sat Mar 06, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 04:30 EST One of my favorite features in LGS is the ability to select a file with a single _right_ click. I use this all the time. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 106 Sat Mar 06, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 06:29 EST >Message 105 Sat Mar 06, 1993 >J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 04:30 EST > >One of my favorite features in LGS is the ability to select a file with >a single _right_ click. I use this all the time. Same here! I also use UNDO for Cancel quite a lot. __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 107 Sat Mar 06, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 13:44 EST >Glad you liked my ACC idea too. I should point out that it's most useful for >those who want to use only one macro for bringing up DAs (especially those who >change their DA setup frequently). If number of macros is no object, it's >better to set up one macro for each DA slot so you can run it with one >keystroke and don't have to use the extra step of the keyboard mouseclick (Alt- >Ins). Sounds like a job for Pop-It!. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Friday, March 5, 1993 - 11:54:58 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 108 Sat Mar 06, 1993 AEO.3 [Lyre] at 14:13 EST Al, I did not see your post, but would you consider contacting Dorothy Brumleve (D.A.BRUMLEVE)? She just posted a message stating that someone was having a problem with one of her programs when printing on a KXP1124 printer. While you may not have her programs, maybe you can help her with the problem she is having. Appearently none of the local users have a KXP1124 so she hasn't been able to track this problem down. Lyre 1:39 pm, March 6, 1993 ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 109 Sun Mar 07, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:43 EST That single right click has become my favorite, too. Now if the 'Heads would only change Maxi so that its right-clicking methodology would be more consistent. (Yes, John, I've read the manual, and usually I get it right!) Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 110 Thu Mar 11, 1993 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 02:52 EST GE-Lamp ST....is that true, about QuickKeys on Mac? I thought that it didn't allow for the editing of macros as does CodeKeys????? ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 111 Sat Mar 13, 1993 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 03:05 EST Orca, From the show, the guy demonstrated changing a macro. He could change the name of "Click" to something more meaningful - but he didn't (or perhaps, couldn't) do things like edit the X & Y coordinates of the click. I was just amazed at the price/performance difference! Plus the fact the was selling this like it was an indespensible add-on to the Mac (which I tend to agree with, using CodeKeys on the Atari). Believe me, we've got it gooooood with John & Charles programming for us! Sincerly, John E. Gniewkowski Editor, GEnieLamp ST ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 112 Sat Mar 13, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 18:20 EST ORCA - Sure, you can edit macros with QuickKeys. You can create macros "on the fly" so to speak. The MAC reads key strokes and mouse clicks as you create the macro. MAC handles the timing a little differently, but the resulting macro is quick and smooth. Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 113 Sun Mar 14, 1993 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 01:48 EST John the GL editor.... I do agree we have it very good with J.E. and C.F.J!!! Never have had a problem and HAVE had much help. Where we have a problem is with not more folks like them and not more software of the quality that they produce! Perhaps someone threw away the mold after making the 'heads??? %^) Swampy, ...forgive my ignorance, but I quess my question was can you edit things like the length of a pause in a timed macro? I was told no, but don't know from personal experience, ....so can ya???? ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 114 Sun Mar 14, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 10:28 EST >that they produce! Perhaps someone threw away the mold after making the >'heads??? %^) No question about it! ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 115 Sun Mar 14, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:40 EST Steven, I'd take time out to blush, or get my shovel out, but I don't want to disrupt the flow of admiration around here. :^) John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 116 Sun Mar 14, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 15:12 EST I guess we better cool it before John and Charles get swelled-heads so big they can't get through the bathroom door. I HATE it when that happens.... ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 117 Sun Mar 14, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 19:33 EST ORCA -- Sure, you can edit a pause. Just select it and click on REPLACE. You can change that _one_ pause (like make it of a shorter duration) or change Globaly (changes all the pauses to the _same_ duration). Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 118 Mon Mar 29, 1993 R.PLAGGENBUR [Ralph] at 18:00 EST John King where are you?? I bought Code Keys, oh, maybe 3-4 years ago ( has it been out that long) and I was a causal user at best. After reading some of your messages, I got it out, blew off the dust and began using it like it was a new program. I took it to our User group meeting and demo'ed and played around with it, which lead to 2 of the 21 users there that night to pop down to Xanth ( our local Atari Rep) and order there copys. I think I know why you quit posting here and I too am quite shocked. I think I can understand why Codeheads might not share our enthusiasm over Code-Keys but hey you fans are demanding more. Come back PLEASE, I know your out there. Ralph ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 119 Tue Mar 30, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 20:33 EST Ralph, Thank you for your renewed interest in CodeKeys. I hope I didn't give the impression I was not grateful for John King's enthusiasm. I appreciate all the input people provide around here. Unfortunately, we can't afford to invest our resources (time and energy) for anything other than support for our older products. This is because the tiny Atari market is already saturated to the point that any attempt at advertising would be a losing business venture. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 120 Tue Mar 30, 1993 R.PLAGGENBUR [Ralph / WA] at 22:56 EST John, I totally agree with you regarding focussing you talent to other areas, that's what keeps good thinks popping out of southern California. I am just letting John King know that what he was doing was great and something that I and perhaps others enjoyed. :-) Ralph ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 121 Fri Apr 23, 1993 GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 11:00 EDT Gnox - Thanks for posting that 'acc' macro back in message #95. It's a snap to set-up and works great. The only refinement I made was to change the trigger key from ALT-\ to SHIFT-Insert. From there it's an easier reach to ALT-Insert or ALT-Arrow to select one of the entries. But then, you knew this already. :) Gordon ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 122 Fri Apr 23, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 21:31 EDT One of my favorite hot keys is Alt-8 for a "*.*" macro. You might be surprised how often that comes in handy... __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 123 Sat Apr 24, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 00:30 EST Right now, I USE about 3 macros. One to backspace and put .ZIP in the file selector for easy conversion of .xxx to .ZIP files, one to put *.* in whatever, and one to call Spelling Sentry 'correct word' dialog (WHY doesn't it come up FIRST?). ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 124 Sat Apr 24, 1993 A.B.SMITH [Barry] at 06:11 EDT John- I just had, or am having, another sessiion with genealogy and use "Its All Relative" by Greg Kopchak. I just wanted to tell you that I have used CODE KEYS extensively thgis time and it has been great help in the repititious entries involved in this sort of thing. I don't know how I got along W?O it before. Great program and simple once one grasps it. Thanks. - Barry ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 125 Mon Apr 26, 1993 GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 09:58 EDT I've found CodeKeys to be of great help in BDB (Book Data Base) too. It involves mucho repetitive actions too. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 126 Sat May 08, 1993 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 00:34 EDT John and Charles, With the advent of MultiTOS, will CodeKeys be upgraded to support multiple applications running at the same time with different KEY files? Jeffrey ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 127 Fri May 21, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 03:54 EDT I had this insperational idea.... Remember STAR RAIDERS for the 2600? How about that key pad for doing certain things? How about some thing like that for code keys? You might be able to pick up the very same ones from Atari!?! Could this work? Could people upload their current macros to the library? (please?) I tried creating macros but got frustrated with the editing, I was having problems decifering what was esentail and what was wasted mouse movements and how to read what the letters and numbers mean. I would like to see the editing interface updated and more coherinte. I will look into getting my hands on a star raider pad to see if it can be used to trigger macros. Bman ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 128 Fri May 21, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 21:41 EDT ::cough:: All I'd like is a "standard" clipboard while in the editor or the pik-a-macro GUI. Click and Drag #1 to #7 or something. It doesn't work this way already, does it? It's not loaded at the moment so I can't check. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 129 Sat May 22, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 05:26 EDT Kenne, CodeKeys has always allowed you to drag a macro (1-32) to another slot to move it, and to shift-drag it to copy it. This doesn't use the clipboard however. It simply moves or copies the macro you select. The use of the "standard" clipboard by CodeKeys would only make sense if another program recognized CodeKeys' macro format. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 130 Sat May 22, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 13:22 EDT Me too would like macro files uploaded to the library. It would save making my own. BTW, why won't a macro for GEnie 's Aladdin always work? That is, if I hit my key combo for "read messages" then it will work in term mode but not when I am just at the menu screen. I edit the macro to work at the menu screen and it don't work at the term screen. I know it has to do with positioning but I cannot get it right in ST Medium. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Saturday 22 May 1993 at 02:11 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 131 Sat May 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:16 EDT B Man, I uploaded some simple ST Writer macros a while back. I have some MultiWriter ones, too, that I can send one of these days. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 132 Sat May 22, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 22:07 EDT Shift Drag? Cool! Yeah, yeah, yeah... RTFM! Okay, "Standard" may not be the right word. Let me go dig out the manual. Hmmmm... I think I see why you did it the way you did. It think Cut, Copy, Paste, and Append might be a little clearer, but hey... I'm a nag. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 133 Sun May 23, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:44 EDT Brian, There are only a couple of reasons why CodeKeys macros won't work. Either you're trying to use it at the wrong time, or the timing within it is wrong. When you play back a macro, it just reproduces the actions that were used to create it. For that reason, the conditions need to be the same. If the macro uses the menubar, then the menubar needs to be active at the time you play it and it needs to be the same menubar since the mouse clicks are dependent on screen position. The timing also must be correct. There are several things which can affect this. Basically, if you record a "timed macro" it should play back the same way. If you change the pauses, it may or may not work. For instance, if you record a macro with Warp 9 acceleration, it may not work without Warp 9 because screen redraws may not be fast enough for the next action in the macro. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 134 Sun May 23, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 19:56 EST Brian, Aladdin might be reacting a little slower in one mode than another so it might be messing up the macro. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 135 Sun May 23, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 20:03 EDT Thanks Joe and John. For some reason the macro made at the main menu screen is two pixel differnet than at the term screen. These two "Y" pixel made the difference. What I did was do a time record on both screens and compared the difference. Seems like a real hassle just to get one macro. Only another 31 to go, sigh. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 136 Mon May 24, 1993 M.STEFANI [MCH] at 02:33 EDT John, Hope you don't mind accepting yet another compliment on CodeKeys, an accessory that amazingly "streamlines" each and every application I choose to run. HotWire and MaxiFile have been fantastic enough, but I couldn't imagine computer life without this brilliant program! I've been lucky enough to own CodeKeys since it's maiden release, and I HIGHLY recommend it to any ST user. Keep up the great work!! Mark @ VISION Music ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 137 Sat Jun 19, 1993 M.SILVERSTE3 [SYNCHRON] at 01:15 EDT Probably one of my favorite Codekeys file is the one I made for Midi Music Maker (which has no keyboard equivs for any of its GEM pulldowns). Once your in MM, 1 Codekey combo will Locate an SMF, MCS, MS88 directory, load a config file, load a set file, and then select all songs at random and then play them! All with one Key macro! Not as great as double-clicking on a set file with MIDISpy - but the next best thing. Be in Synch with the Synchron from Camarillo, CA!! Datestamp: Friday, June 18, 1993 Timestamp: 10:07:46 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 138 Sun Jul 04, 1993 C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON] at 16:50 EDT I found something in the library today that I think CodeKeys users will find helpful. I checked the archives in this category & found no mention of it. It's called the "Informer". It's #23069 in the library. It can be run as a PRG, ACC, or resident program. It's meant to be a complete info update system. The most interesting feature of it is it can tell you the mouse's exact position at all times. This is very handy when editing mouse coordinates in your macros. It shows the mouse's position in the upper right hand corner. You can turn it on & off remotely by pressing both shift keys together. The only problem seems to be HotWire won't allow this. So, you can turn it on & off through MultiDesk also. Maybe someone else can figure a way around this. Carson ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 139 Mon Jul 05, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:37 EDT Ummm, Carson, why do you need to know the mouse's position when you can record it anytime and paste it into any macro just using CodeKeys ACC? gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 140 Mon Jul 05, 1993 C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON] at 08:07 EDT gnox, To save time when editing an existing macro. You bring up CodeKeys, select the mouse coordinate to be edited, hit "R" (to replace), and type in the new coordinate. The other way; recording a new mouse click, deleting the old mouse click, then inserting the new one, works too. The first way is just faster for me. Carson ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 141 Tue Jul 06, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:20 EDT Carson, Ah, I see ... having the old macro and the new coordinate visible at the same time _could_ save a few seconds. gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 142 Sat Aug 21, 1993 E.ROSEN [Ed Rosen] at 18:22 EDT Obvioulsy way behind the times, but am I correct in stating that timed CodeKeys v1.1 macros do not work correctly on an MSTE/2.06? How much was that upgrade? $10.00 and the old disk? Ed ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 143 Sat Aug 21, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 19:09 EDT Ed, CodeKeys is at v1.3, but I don't recall any problems that would cause timed macros in v1.1 not to work on an MSTE. That's a pretty broad statement. What specifically are you having trouble with? A simple test would be to record a timed macro and just click the mouse a few places on the screen. I think you'll find that works just fine. From there you can use a systematic approach which might help you narrow down the problem in the more specific task you're trying to perform. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 144 Sun Aug 22, 1993 E.ROSEN [Ed Rosen] at 20:38 EDT John, Thanks for the encouragement with my CK maCKros. ;-) You are, of course, correct; they do work fine. But....there is someting funny going on and it appears to be connected to triggering via an ALT-NK? (where ? = any NK numeral, 0-9). It goes like this. A timed or keyboard macro triggered by one of these combinations will work fine. However, ANY ALT-NK? will trigger this same macro! Furthermore, none of these combinations will be displayed as the trigger in the CK accesory window. That is, the ACC box always displays "UNDEFINED" unless the trigger is set something other than ALT-NK?. All other triggers seem to work fine. Can you make anything out of this? I've been testing on a stripped down boot. Only DeskManager, UIS 3.32, and CK, on an MSTE/TOS2.6 Also, this is not application specific. I get the same results whether CK is called while at the desktop or from within an application or when booting without the CK DA. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 145 Mon Aug 23, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:06 EDT Ed, With TOS 2.06/3.06 the Alt-keypad combinations are used for entering any ASCII character by number - so you can't use those as CodeKeys triggers. (You can however create a CodeKeys macro to enter one of the extended character set - I use Ctrl-. for bullets, for instance.) gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 146 Mon Aug 23, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:36 EDT Ed, Thanks for narrowing down the problem. As gnox said, you can't use Alt-Keypad numbers for CodeKeys triggers on TOS 2.06 machines. They're used by the system to enter extended characters by ASCII value. CodeKeys users have another way they can enter these values, regardless of which TOS they use. Simply hold Control when using "Replace" on a keypress event (Control-R works, too). A box will appear with all of the extended characters. This allows you to do things like assigning Control-"O" to "O"- umlaut, for example. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 147 Mon Aug 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:57 EDT Durn! Another CodeHead tip that shows me I'm still learning how to use one of my essential utilities! Folks, for his next act, John is going to demonstrate how CodeKeys will start dinner going with Control-Alt - Left Shift - Right Shift - Backspace - Undo - Keypad +. (That's the microwave version; the regular version adds ESC - Tab - R to the combination.) Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 148 Mon Aug 23, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 22:09 EDT Al, As a pianist, I can hit all of those keys at once except that final "R". It was at that point that I knew you were kidding. <grin> Oops...gotta go. For some reason -- dinner's ready. :^) John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 149 Tue Aug 24, 1993 E.ROSEN [Ed Rosen] at 02:47 EDT John and gnox, Okay, I guess the Alt-key trigger problem was too easy. I'll be back! Thanks to both of you. Gotta go and de-alt my triggers <huh?> ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 150 Wed Aug 25, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 04:23 EDT Ed, Notice how I talked you out of updating? Of course, if you want some true flexibility with time and date formats, or the extended ASCII feature I mentioned, you'll need to update anyway. <grin> John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 151 Thu Aug 26, 1993 E.ROSEN [Ed Rosen] at 21:19 EDT John, Yes, you did talk me out of upgrading. But think of the goodwill you've generated. You are a scholar and a gentleman. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 152 Fri Aug 27, 1993 M.STEFANI [MCH] at 00:58 EDT Has anyone as yet found a more useful utility prg/acc than CodeKeys? This morning I created a 'temporary' macro within Band-In-A-Box. The purpose was to streamline an editing task. Creating the macro took less than thirty seconds. Using it saved me a whole lot of valuable time, something I've come to take for granted from this remarkable creation. I love programs in general that implement the use of macros. Since those applications tend to be far too few, the usefullness of a program like CodeKeys cannot be overestimated. I now have hundreds upon hundreds of macros linked to every application I run, saving me probably countless of hours of time. The 'bottom line' is that I can't even begin to imagine computer life without it. If you're a CodeKeys user, you know what I'm talking about. If not, BUY IT!! Thanks, CodeHead, and keep up the great work!!! Mark @ VISION Music ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 153 Fri Aug 27, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:48 EDT >Message 152 Fri Aug 27, 1993 >M.STEFANI [MCH] at 00:58 EDT > >Has anyone as yet found a more useful utility prg/acc than CodeKeys? Well, HotWire, MaxiFile, MultiDesk Deluxe and Warp 9 come to mind. But the truth is, it's virtually impossible to rate my CodeHead STuff in any order, because they're all so invaluable. They're all tied for 1st! :^) __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 154 Fri Aug 27, 1993 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 23:45 EDT We can add PopIt to that list, which has saved me innumerable trips to the Desk menu. - Mel ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 155 Sat Aug 28, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 00:17 EDT When my RAM is getting tight Maxifile is always the LAST thing to go. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 156 Sat Aug 28, 1993 M.STEFANI [MCH] at 02:02 EDT Terry, Good point! I mean, I wouldn't think of running my ST without the 'best' program launcher, file manipulater, an acc that breaks the six DA barrier, or the best screen accelerator around. For that matter, since I love 'hot keys' and generally only like to reach for the mouse when it's absolutely necessary, we could probably add PopIt to the list of 'indispensable' CodeHead products. To me, what separates CodeKeys from these other great applications is what it does for the user while actually 'within' a given program. To create a bank of custom, personalized macros for each program that actually improves the way it behaves goes far beyond what I could ever expect from a utility program. In some ways it's like receiving a great 'upgrade' for each application you run! For this reason alone, CodeKeys is simply a STEAL for the price!! Mark Stefani ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 157 Sat Aug 28, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:25 EDT And I thought he was a musician and a programmer! Oh well, John can be a lot of things. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 158 Sat Aug 28, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:37 EDT This is an interesting subject. Like everyone else, I have favorites among my utilities, but I agree with Kenne -- Maxi is the last to go if I am tight on RAM. But Warp 9 ALWAYS stays, so I don't even think about running without it. I guess that makes it a tie. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 159 Sat Aug 28, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 09:55 EDT >>RAM. But Warp 9 ALWAYS stays, so I don't even think about running << >>without it. I guess that makes it a tie. << On those rare occasions when I DO have to run without Warp 9, things sure seem to go SLOWLY. ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 160 Sat Aug 28, 1993 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 17:38 EDT I would suppose that Warp 9 is working more of the time than my other tools, but Codekeys does save more on the physical input of typing and mouseclicking. So I guess W9 is the busiest, but Codekeys is the workhorse. - Mel ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 161 Sat Aug 28, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 20:44 EDT HotWire is my last utility to go, since MaxiFile can be used as a PRG in much the same way as it's used as an ACC. After HotWire, it gets a little tougher to pick and choose. Thankfully, I don't have to. :^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 162 Wed Sep 01, 1993 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 23:26 EDT "Favorites" is always a fun question. In order of necessity: Warp 9 Hotwire! Little Green Selector...yep, this little shareware item means more to me than the rest of the commercial stuff. mike.k ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 163 Wed Dec 29, 1993 M.SILVERSTE3 [SYNCHRON] at 11:25 EST I forget, does anybody remember what causes Codekeys to not playback a hot key combo used to select a path in LGF??? I used to have several macros that did this and worked and now they don't activate within the LGF selector... thanx. Be in Synch with the Synchron from Camarillo, CA!! Datestamp: Wednesday, December 29, 1993 Timestamp: 8:16:38 am ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 164 Thu Dec 30, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:09 EST Synchron, It's probably a mouse click that has gotten lost along the way. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 165 Thu Dec 30, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 00:16 EST Synchron, Check that CodeKeys runs before LGS in the AUTO folder... ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 166 Fri Jan 07, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 03:03 EST CodeHeads's: Just a little suggestion for the next upgrade: The ability to read a text file or the clipboard for a macro. Example: I want to change my signature, so I use a text editor, lay it out the way I want, save it to a ASCII file or clipboard, call up CodeKeys and let it read the file, I assign a hot key and away I go. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Friday, January 7, 1994 - 2:20:50 am ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 167 Fri Jan 07, 1994 C.UNDERWOOD1 [Carson] at 08:35 EST Jeff, I'll second that suggestion. What a great idea. Carson ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 168 Fri Jan 07, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:00 EST Umm, how much trouble is it to type your name into CodeKeys? Maybe I'm missing something here, Jeff. Would this added feature just read as ASCII text? Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 169 Fri Jan 07, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 22:29 EST Al, >Umm, how much trouble is it to type your name into CodeKeys? Maybe I'm >missing something here, Jeff. I was only using my signature/name as a example. The usefulness would show up on more complex stuff. :-} >Would this added feature just read as ASCII text? I was thinking that ASCII would be the easiest to program. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Friday, January 7, 1994 - 10:10:14 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 170 Sat Jan 08, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:04 EST Jeff, That you for the good suggestion. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 171 Sat Jan 08, 1994 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 20:40 EST Excellent suggestion, Jeff. If CodeKeys used the clipboard you could use an editor like STeno to do your editing, and then jump right into the CodeKeys editor to call it up automatically. __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 172 Sat Jan 08, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 23:33 EST John, >That you for the good suggestion. Yep, I have one or two good ideas every year or so. :-} ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Saturday, January 8, 1994 - 11:17:16 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 173 Sat Jan 15, 1994 M.SILVERSTE3 [SYNCHRON] at 12:06 EST Thanx Ron - They were switched - LGF was before Codekeys in auto. Problem solved! Be in Synch with the Synchron from Camarillo, CA!! Datestamp: Saturday, January 15, 1994 Timestamp: 9:02:38 am ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 174 Fri Jan 28, 1994 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 01:26 EST Today I went to start a new disk for Pha$ar 1994. After copying all the old disk to the new one I couldn't get my accessories to go in the right slot order and thus Codekeys would point to the wrong one with my macros. I finally gave up and did the kind of copy where you pull the A disk desktop icon onto the B icon which got them back in the right order, but for future reference I would like to know how accessory slot order is decided on the ST. I tried deleting them all and recopying them in the correct order as you do with AUTO programs and also tried working with the dates to no avail. Thanks, --Big mike ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 175 Fri Jan 28, 1994 M.STEFANI [MCH] at 03:35 EST big mike, I could be wrong, but as far as I know the best way to get the DAs to load in alphabetically is to write them to your root directory in inverse order (i.e. Z thru A). While there seem to be DAs that 'insist' on certain slots, by and large this procedure works for me. MCH ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 176 Fri Jan 28, 1994 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 04:52 EST Message Fri Jan 28, 1994 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] > I would like to know how accessory slot order is decided on the ST. They load in reverse of the no-sort order on the disk; that is the reverse of the order they were loaded onto the disk. The CodeHeads wrote a utility to AutoSort the auto folder or the accessories in the order of your choice. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 177 Fri Jan 28, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:33 EST Well, the BEST way to get DAs to load in alpha order is to make them resident in MultiDesk Deluxe and save its configuration. (That's why the Warp 9 CP works best in MultiDesk - because it starts with W and not many ACCs begin with x,y or z. ;) gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 178 Fri Jan 28, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 09:21 EST Sorry, guys. Lots of incorrect info here. There is no way to exactly predict the order of the ACCs in the menu. GEM loads them from disk in a no-sort order and then begins executing them through the event system. But there's no way to predict how many AES calls an ACC makes before it makes its menu_register call, and that's what determines when GEM stuffs their menu names into the drop-down. If you copy ACCs in a no-sort order, they will install in the same order as they did on the source, but you can't predetermine this order to suit your needs. MultiDesk loads its resident ACCs in the order that you tell it. It has nothing to do with the alphabet. Our Auto Organizer program only sorts AUTO programs, not ACCs. I do appreciate everyone's attempts to help, though. <grin> John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 179 Fri Jan 28, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:38 EST Big Mike, MCH is right, as far as I recall. BTW, Geneva puts all DAs in alphabetical order, so this problem just plain goes away. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 180 Sat Jan 29, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:38 EST John, Secrets of Accessory Loading, eh? Good job, pal. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 181 Sat Jan 29, 1994 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 05:11 EST Thanks John. So (if I may show my ignorance a bit) are you saying that they load in the no-sort order, but that doesn't necessarily determine the slot order in the ACC menu? (By the way guys, I never said I was trying to alphabetize them. My problem is on the old disk they appear in the order: Codekeys, UIS3, Notepad, Ramdisk and when I copy them, no matter what I try they come out with Notepad and Codekeys reversed. Like I said, copying the disk using the A icon pulled onto the B icon method finally solved the problem.) Thanks again everyone, --Big mike ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 182 Sat Jan 29, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:54 EST John, > MultiDesk loads its resident ACCs in the order that you tell it. It > has nothing to do with the alphabet. How do you "tell it"? gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 183 Sat Jan 29, 1994 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 10:22 EST John is of course right about not being able to predict the order of the accessory loads. However, in general they will load in revers non-sort order. At times that rule will not apply. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 184 Sat Jan 29, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:42 EST Big Mike, They ALWAYS load from disk in an predictable order (once you've examined the physical order on disk), but the operating system may not necessarily handle them in the same order when they are divvied into RAM. As for alphabetizing them, I see what you mean (and I'm once again pointing out that Geneva takes care of this for you). But I also have Pop-It from the 'Heads, which for non-G users is an absolute delight; it pops DAs open at the touch of a button, even if they are inside MDD. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 185 Sat Jan 29, 1994 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 13:59 EST gnox, You "tell it" by the order in which you load them into MDD. If you load Warp 9 first and Art Gallery second and then save your config, that's the way MDD will load them. __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 186 Sat Jan 29, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 18:49 EST Here's an example showing why you can't predict the order of ACCs in the drop- down menu. Let's say you have three ACCs, named APPLES.ACC, ORANGES.ACC, and PEARS.ACC. Let's also assume that they have been copied to your boot drive in that order (alphabetically) so that their unsorted order is alphabetical. When GEM initializes, it will first load all ACCs in the (unsorted) order it finds them and then begin by jumping into the first one. Each ACC will execute until it makes an AES call and then GEM will pass the ball to the next ACC in a round-robin order. GEM's own desktop code will be one of the applications cycling through this coffee klatch, but for simplicity's sake, I'll leave it out. The following table illustrates the order of execution of the ACCs routines. You can follow it by reading across, one line at a time. I've selected a purely hypothetical series of AES system calls to be made by each ACC: APPLES.ACC ORANGES.ACC PEARS.ACC ---------- ----------- --------- (loaded from disk) (loaded from disk) (loaded from disk) appl_init() appl_init() appl_init() rsrc_load() menu_register() appl_find() rsrc_gaddr() evnt_mesag() menu_register() rsrc_obfix() evnt_multi() rsrc_obfix() . . . menu_register() evnt_multi() When GEM gets a menu_register call it puts the name of the ACC in the next available drop-down slot. Atari has never released any official rules as to the order of calls an ACC must make when it initializes (other than starting with appl_init), so none of the above scenarios are wrong but each one calls menu_register at a different point. Based on the order of execution of the AES calls in the above examples, the menu would look like this: Oranges Pears Apples The bottom line is that unless you know the exact order of the internal system calls made by every ACC you use, there's no way to predict for sure which order they will appear in the drop-down menu. Note that there might be other system calls (GEMDOS, VDI, etc.) in the above examples but I've only listed the AES calls since those are the calls which GEM uses to pass the order of execution between applications (in my understanding). gnox, You "tell" MultiDesk which order to load its resident ACCs by loading them in the order you want them (and then saving your setup). Joe, If you've found ACCs to load in "reverse non-sort" order, it's been by coincidence. <grin> John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 187 Sun Jan 30, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:58 EST Terry, > If you load Warp 9 first and Art Gallery second and then save your > config, that's the way MDD will load them. OK, that's one for the notebook. I don't know how I missed that, what with all the discussion about loading order that followed the release of Warp 9. Thanks! You too, John. gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 188 Sun Jan 30, 1994 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 08:34 EST Message Sat Jan 29, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] > If you've found ACCs to load in "reverse non-sort" order, it's been > by coincidence. <grin> It may be. <grin> I have had the same list of accessories for a long time. Only the ones in MD get changed. The last accessory added outside MD is Spelling Sentry and I got it as soon as it came out. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 189 Wed Feb 02, 1994 M.SILVERSTE3 [SYNCHRON] at 09:31 EST I'm recently running into some MIDI overflow conflicts with Band in a Box, Patch editing, and several sequencers - all due to Codekeys present in the AUTO folder. I am able to use Captain Hook to disable Codekeys for these MIDI programs by entering just the T (200 Hz timer) in the DAT file. (The KIS vectors don't seem to correct the problem). Everything works fine when these programs are launched from the desktop. But when they are launched from a shell (i.e. Hotwire 3, Neodesk 3, Geneva) I get bombs - usually when exiting the MIDI program. This kind of tells me, these shell programs need the T vector for something, i.e. Neodesk reports a vector was stolen. If Hotwire runs before Captain Hook, I will get the bombs when launching another program immediately after exiting the MIDI program that has the T vector configured in the Captain Hook DAT file. My system: 1040STf 4 Meg, TOS 1.4. Let me know if there are alternatives in solving this. Be in Synch with the Synchron from Camarillo, CA!! Datestamp: Wednesday, February 2, 1994 Timestamp: 6:19:28 am ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 190 Wed Feb 02, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 14:30 EST Synchron, Thanks for the report about the use of Captain Hook. I was never able to achieve much success with it and that's probably because I always use HotWire to launch programs. Yes, HotWire does use the 200Hz vector (as well as others). I don't think there is a solution other than to disable CodeKeys. Captain Hook was an experiment that never really worked. Its original purpose was to help MIDI Spy deal with MIDI along with other resident programs. I was able to achieve far better stability by using a few other tricks within MIDI Spy itself, so Captain Hook was never needed by MIDI Spy. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 191 Sat Feb 05, 1994 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 02:39 EST ...here's a thought on the problem someone is having with the loading order of ACC's: 'If' I heard his real problem it was that because the order of the ACC's in the drop down menu had changed, his macros in Codekeys didn't 'click' on the correct ACC. Is that right? How 'bout getting Popit from CodeHead, with which you can assign a hot key to call each ACC (even ACC's or MDX's inside Multidesk) and then using that Hot key in the CodeKeys macros? Then it wouldn't matter what order the ACC's loaded in. Right? %^) In this way you can do some nice little things with timed macros, such as call STeno (which I have loaded as an MDX in MD) and give enough of a pause in the macro to then call up the file selector (Alt-O ...in STeno) ready to open a file. ...you can tell that I think Popit is might cool, right? <G> ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 192 Sat Feb 05, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:59 EST Orca, Nice to see you again. Anyway, you are totally right; PopIt solves that problem. As does Geneva, which orders the DAs alphabetically no matter what, and provides hoykey access. (But PopIt shines when it comes to popping DAs out of MDD!) Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 193 Sat Feb 05, 1994 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 21:54 EST Thanks Al, ...I'm glad someone likes to see me! <grin> Yeah, Popit is a real Q T alright. I'm waiting with baited fingers to see what the sequeal, MoMit, will be like! <G> ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 194 Sun Feb 06, 1994 M.STEFANI [MCH] at 01:59 EST Yeah, PopIt is probably among the lesser-known 'must-haves' in the CodeHead stable. I have kind of a special affection for it. You see, the primary reason I bought an ST many years ago was to gain access to a great music- scoring program, the Copyist (Dr.T's Software). The only problem with the Copyist (for me) is that, unlike most applications, it doesn't permit the user access to DAs. You can have them resident with no conflicts, but within the program they're grayed out. Now, if you like having great DAs available (MaxiFile, CodeKeys, MultiDesk, Steno, MidiSpy and Warp 9 spring to mind), this could be a real pain. But PopIt works like a charm with the Copyist, and you don't even have to grab the mouse to get to those DAs. That's always a plus for me. Just another brilliant program by those amazing CodeHeads! What would we Atarians do without them? MCH ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 195 Sun Feb 06, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:55 EST > Just another brilliant program by those amazing CodeHeads! Actually it's _by_ Doug Harrison, though you're right about the rest. ;) gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 196 Sun Feb 06, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:47 EST I thought the sequel was SonIt? Actually, the 'Heads considered a variety of names for PopIt. One, which would have fit the unreleased version that placed DAs into a heap at the bottom of the screen, was PlopIt. Another, for the unfinished version that held DAs up at once corner, was PropIt. A third, for the unrecognized version that kept people like me from making bad jokes, was DropIt.... :) Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 197 Sun Feb 06, 1994 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 17:32 EST Orca, If Popit is bigger than 7K, there's just no room for it on this disk. This computer is dedicated to running PHA$AR and some business accessories and has no hard drive. Anyway, I have the ACCs in the right order again (at least for the time being). Thanks, --Big mike ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 198 Sun Feb 06, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 20:38 EST Al ... StopIt! ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 199 Sun Feb 06, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 21:14 EST Yeah! Where's a Topic CopIt? ------------ Category 32, Topic 22 Message 200 Mon Feb 07, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 05:34 EST Kenne@SFRT >Yeah! Where's a Topic CopIt? He lostIt and beatIt {grin}! ~~Brian..Written on Monday 07 February 1994 at 06:28 a.m. ADT ------------